Single Nogizaka46 12th (Taiyou Knock) (15/07/22)

I think ikotan's appearance is so center material. She's visible and has charisma (at least to me). And actually I find her cute

 

I won't jump in the controversy of Ikoma became the center again, but Miona? I can't get it just when she cut her hair and totally transformed to a nymphet

 

So, now we know at whose sings at namesong, but, what else we know? I think "Summercloth" knows, at two of, one same of us, or something more, even if I ask one girl these, answer is 'Wait and you can see.'

So, when it comes to nearer , more to cam clean...

 

Just going to throw in my two pence here,

In regards to the ongoing topic of discussions, from what I know this decision for centre is a fairly controversial one. Certainly 2ch is not representative of the whole nogi fandom, but neither will one matome site be imo; there is another matome site I know of with high amounts of comments where there's many criticisms. The point is not to say which side is right or wrong, more or less, but simply to establish that this is indeed something deeply controversial within the fandom as a whole, not just something out of 2ch or stage48.

Regarding her recognition, I think we can all agree, regardless of whether we are for or against her as centre, that she is highly recognizable outside the nogi fandom if not the most recognizable. A recent Nikkei survey indicates the latter, suggesting she is the most recognizable nogi girl. However the same survey also gives her the lowest "關心度" (roughly "care for rate" I guess, or "attention to rate") among polled nogi girls (Maiyan, Nanase, Ikuchan, & Sayurin were also polled.) Going back to SUPER☆LeMON's post, I think it is safe to conclude Ikoma's high recognition does not equate to high popularity. Whether this indicate potential for growth or not is a different question, & for me I think the answer to this is negative. Among those that have been already been exposed to her, those that have come to like her enough to be fans or to support her should alrdy have; I don't see how further exposure for Ikoma to the same group of ppl will change their mind, or for that how matter further exposure to ppl that don't recognize her will have a different result. Inversely, if it's someone that is not well recognized but have high "care for rate" instead, I think this shows a lot more promise for growth.

I don't think her lack of HS selling out should be attributed to her fans being mostly female fans either. There is no doubt that in HS events, there are more male fans than females. Nonetheless this does not means female fans don't attend HS, in fact compared to other idol groups (48 groups at least) it is not infrequent that remarks about a much higher amount of female fans being presented are made. Maiyan for example is often noted to have a high amount of female fans in HS (Minami too for another), & I think this is possibly due to her modeling. So in this regards, I don't think Ikoma's poor HS results should be attributed to a supposed invisible female fan composition either.

Lastly on the notion that mngmnt knows more than us fans do. I have no doubt they do, but this does not means they will always make the right decision either, nor does it means what we do know are invalid. By this logic, most of us wouldn't need to bother criticizing governments, corporations, or any large organizations you can think of since they likely know more than us. But I think we can see how this don't work. & even for the information disparity I doubt it is as large as one can imagine; we have HS sales results & HS reports for HS, the price of idol goods for the demands of merchandise, popularity & recognition charts like the Nikkei one I mentioned above, etc.

Considering the above points, I don't think it is unfair for fans to say this is a decision one dislikes. I don't support bashing Ikoma, & I hope the single do well, but voice dissenting her centering shouldn't just be dismissed I think. I think someone whom most of us can agree on as centre would have been a much better choice, not only for the fandom but also for Ikoma herself.

 

Thank you @rust , been waiting for your input since you usually have some interesting stuff to say and do your homework.

The irony of this sentence is that most people here agree with you. That's why they keep asking why mgmt is intent on investing into Ikoma when they already have girls like Maiyan, Maimai, Nanamin, Ringo, etc. that have shown greater potential in mainstream marketability and bring in more money through their HS sales (which translate to CD sales). Business wise, giving Nanase multiple center opportunities makes sense (even if for the sake of freshness, I didn't want it) because she's undeniably popular, is the top HS seller, gets model gigs, and is a recognizable face. And if they wanted someone younger-- there's Ikutan who's been a fan favorite since the beginning and also Ashurin who has completely sold out her 28 HS blocks and has a modeling contract with a popular female magazine. Getting off the center position for a moment, we can also bring up questionable choices like putting one of their top sellers in the 18th position and leaving out their most well known 2nd gen completely. If we're talking about "maximizing potential from available resources" then from an outside source looking in, some of the decisions in this senbatsu doesn't make much sense. But like you said, we don't have access to whatever data mgmt is using to determine who they need to put their resources in. Japanese companies can be notoriously stubborn though so I just would not be surprised if some of these decisions are less about whatever profit they think they can gain from it and more about promoting their own agenda.

Honestly, girls like Maiyan, Nanamin, and Maimai really don't NEED the center position. They do more than well without it. Fans have just shown they really like and support these girls so they'd just like to see them get that spotlight. Sakura certainly hasn't needed the center spot in HKT48 to realize her full potential but it doesn't stop me (or others) from wanting to see her eventually get it anyway. They're popular for a reason, people WANT to see them.

And no, I'm not someone that believes center should always go to THE ABSOLUTE MOST POPULAR GIRLS but I don't believe in continuing to use it on a girl that doesn't seem to benefit from it either. Being in front didn't benefit Hoshimina either, hell she was probably more hated than Ikoma out of the original trio but look at her now after she was demoted to a position fans could accept. I'm just saying, there's no harm in trying that same tactic with Ikoma to see if it bares more fruit. But honestly, they've dragged this out so long already with now six centered singles, keeping her in fukujin, the kennin, etc. I'm finding it hard to imagine they'll be able to get the "failed push" stigma off of her at this point. It's not like Paruru (seriously people stop using her as an example) where her first push was actually working and then she dropped off the grid then the push got renewed tenfold with greater results. Ikoma has had a consistently strong push since the beginning regardless of what position she's actually in and it simply has not translated into genuine popularity.

@filipinosayakafan IIRC when GuruGuru Curtain was first announced, Ikoma was the only center the media recognized despite "officially" having Ikutan and Hoshimina in the position with her. Even though they were promoted as a center trio, it's generally accepted that Ikoma was the true center or at least, the "strong" center for that era. It's the same for when Maiyan centered Girls' Rule and Miona centered Barette even though they technically had Sayuringo/Nanamin and Maiyan/Nanamin in the center position with them. It's a bit complicated, but "officially" Nanase and Ikuta have been the only sole centers so far.

 

One of the invalid reason why ikoma has sold less hs is because she has lot of female fans..hmm maybe you could say she has too many casual fans that actually dont bother about her at all.. And why paruru..i never thought she is a failed push. The only fail pushed girl in 48 is ishida anna. Beforr this was kotani riho but she eventually did rank and now she quite popular within nmb but they cant be compared with a 5x centre of an upcoming popular group

 

I consider Takeuchi Miyu a failed push, too. She was originally named ace of her generation; she was even pushed more than Paruru at that time.

I don't consider Ikoma Rina to be a real beauty or talent, but I don't get why people are so against her as center. I see nothing wrong with her. She deserves it more than others who don't even want to be center (Nanase in 11th single).

 

I'd say there are a number of failed pushes in 48G, but Ikomachan certainly takes the cake because she centered the whole group multiple times failing to get a popularity increase from it. Off the top of my head I recall Maeda Ami, Oku Manami, Izuta Rina, Takeuchi Miyu, Miyazaki Miho and of course, Ishida Anna.

I think the Paruru comparisons are because way back when she was the most pushed 9th gen member and ranked for the first time in the elections, she stopped ranking even though she was pushed so they didn't push her anymore and started with Yuihan. Obviously, Paruru had a comeback after centering Ori Team 4 and is now one of the most popular members, which is why many people consider comparing Paru to Ikomachan to be unfitting.

Well, in any case, people are talking about the single, so I guess there is some buzz around it already from Ikoma being center, even if it's not only favorable. I've read that 48G managers sometimes push girls because of their great work ethics and good relationships with their groupmates even if they aren't very popular, and you can't deny that Ikoma is one of the most well-loved Nogi members for the other girls in general, so I don't think they will have a problem with it, and maybe they want to reward Ikoma with this for doing well and working hard in that kennin. She seems to take this as a challenge to prove herself, so I hope she does. She's grown a lot from the time when she was the loud original center of Nogizaka, so maybe fans could just give her the benefit of the doubt and see how much she has improved. I hope this is a one time thing anyway too.

 

I think fans were tired of Ikomachan centering. Sure it has been two years since her last centering but Ikomachan is now centering half of Nogi's singles. Let that sink in for a moment. Do you think that it's fair to other members (Noujo, Nagashima, Nakada) that are trying so hard just to get back into senbatsu? Reading Rarin's latest blog, you get the overwhelming feeling of sadness and her alluding to graduation.

I don't hate Ikomachan, I hate management's bias toward her. I have the feeling that they are still trying to reap great returns in their investment. It's just like playing the stock market. Sometimes it is best to bite the bullet, cut your losses and invest in something else. There are a number of members I feel that would make a better investment.

 

Actually I disagree with those who think Ikoma being center is bad for business... given you just don't limit yourself to looking at things in a financial perspective. Exposure and attention are just as important, if not important than just hard money itself. Knowing Ikoma is not the most preferred of candidates, she makes a good lightning rod... and the absolute value of negative and positive attention is... attention.
I mean, most could probably list at least 5 members that look better than her...
Most could name maybe at least three people who are more talented than her when it comes to being proficient in the performing arts...

It's ironic, cuz outside of NMB (the one exception to the rule where talent does matter, via Sayanee) some of the "failed" pushes within AKB are ones that are quite talented... or just looked way too good to be in AKB.
Miyu with her musical abilities, both instrumentally and vocally
Anna Ishida, that hot girl that also dances really, really well...

 

IKOMA!!! YEEEEY!
hehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehe hehehehe hehe

It's a bit weird to see Hori out though. Rena is gone, but they pushed Hori out. WHY?

 

lol. it is a failed push if you are put in senbatsu for longest time but no impact has been made. that's why i said girls like anna and riho. miyu ,and other girls were only in tv performances/shows and how come you said maeda ami is failed? all those girls that are said were half-assed pushed. real push(super push) is (for me) when you are given senbatsu position for many times and in tv shows. and i feel bad when someone said ikoma is rewarded due to her hardwork.. i dont think anyone is less hardworker.. poor girls especially Ug and i wonder what make they still in ngzk? did management promise them something?i dont think they got high salary though.

 

So, when these sings are really officially.

 

Oh yay! Ikoma-chan being center again. I can't wait, what will be the theme of the single and CD covers. I wish this will not be more serious or a bit candid like nandome and inochi. I wish it will be more lively and colorful.

 

My opinion about 12th single senbatsu:

- I am a bit disappointed that Ikoma is the center. Its not that I don't or even hate her. I just want a new face in the center (I would say so if the chosen center was Maian, Ikuchan, Hori, or Nanase)
- I am REALLY disappointed that ther is no Hori even after her cute hair style

- Actually, I wanted to see a new face in Fukujin. Seeing Fukujin filled by similar faces make me a bit worried. Does put in 1 or two new faces in Fukujin would make it worse?
In summary, I love Nogozaka as a whole team (though Rena has left now ). All my opinion above is only because I am a bit worried people will get bored with Nogizaka if there is something "new" they provide in the new single

 

Have to agree with this, they basically work hard proportionate to the amount of opportunities they are given, more opportunity means more job so the more they will have to work hard. Rather than Ikoma being rewarded for her hard work, I think she is probably rewarded for fulfilling management arrangement of AKB kennin, something that was unthinkable back then among the fandom and some members.

 

how new can make boring feels?

 

I'm agree with his. Ikoma is probably chosen as a center again for the her hardwork working as a kennin.
So the question is, what kind of 'reward' Matsui Rena will get?

 

Her freedom from 48G.

 

1/2 second screentime on AKB new single, last row on that single, not in the top members scene on that single, oh wait.... wrong thread


but in a way Rena's freedom from 48G would be her reward is true too