Okada Nana (Naachan) / 14th Generation

Are you understand where are you? Idols - usually underage girls selling themselves at the guidance of big old man. And here is a forum for fans of this. But you like idols. And at the same time resent of their main activities and way of making money? It does not make sense =)

 

And that's why, unlike many other people, I don't want to see AKB becoming mainstream or well-knonw in the Western World (not that it ever would). Certain modern movements have already destroyed the Western pop culture, leave AKB alone.

 

I'm not sure about mainstream but, BTS surely is well known to the point of being invited to Grammy and World Cup.
Still, I wonder if any of American celebs snapping selfies with members of the group has an ounce of understanding to the idol culture they are a part of. I wonder if they even know that "idol" has a different meaning in South Korea (and Japan).
You underestimated the power of American oblivion.

 

And this fans make them about 0,000000000000000000000000001% of their profit

 

Well.. noone brings gender into the discussion until you came in though. If u think fans obsessions and parasocial relationship are unique to female idols (or male fans).. well u need to read more.

Male and female idols have these problems, but they manifest in different ways. There was several japanese male idol groups that complained to the management about several fans stalking and harrassing them and ... the management do nothing. Until they had it enough and spoke publicly abt the matter.

The thing is in japanese idols (male or female), parasocial relationship is the currency. It has less to do with sex. A giant male idol group with known loyal fanbase still have to wait until they are 40s and even until they are on hiatus to announce their marriage. Eventhough they are larger than akb (arguably) and male.

If you are an actor/actress then ofc it would be different.

I don't deny that female idols have it harder in certain areas, but in this case it is less about the gender than it is about the expectation that comes with being an idol.


This is reflected by the opinion of several important figures:

Sanma- "not even your girl/boyfriend will fly from one end to another end of the island if u ask them. In a way, only a fan can do so much and tolerate such self-indulgence...."

A female announcer-"RKJ should not be seen as a rule. Even if such rule does not exist.. If one is truly earnest being an idol, one should be aware of what is expected of them"

Matsuko Deluxe-"for example there is a host/hostess that i visit regularly and they suggested that they are in for difficult situation if they dont meet that bare minimum. Yet after we pay for them, they go on to say, "anyway i am going to get married"."

These are loosely translation because I cant remember the exact phrasing LOL

 

I wrote a post during a past Nogi scandal that lays out how most Japanese people don’t actually support the dating ban. They might not phrase things quite the same as Western feminists with claims of universal rights and stuff, but a lot of Japanese people still basically think it’s inhumane by their own standards. Why don’t they put a stop to it? Could be the mainstream cultural value of not rocking the boat.

The idol industry is a subculture with a niche audience (the hardcore wotas) that was deliberately cultivated by Aki-P and his ilk. The norms of pandering and entitlement were manufactured in the late 20th century to make money, they don’t constitute some mysterious tradition that we foreigners cannot understand. Western fans also get upset when their parasocial darlings date, it’s just that the industries (usually) don’t validate those impulses so it doesn’t evolve into an accepted norm. Broader Japanese culture does certainly intersect with the 46/48 model in ways that allow it to especially thrive though. Like, broadly speaking, the essentialist and conservative gender norms, emphasis on group over individual, duty to workplace, nostalgia for youth, obsession with cuteness, etc.

 

I didn't have time to make a proper response here during the latest hours and some people already said some of what I would say, but I'll offer my thoughts about it nonetheless.

First of all, it's disconcerting how some people here are treating idols like some ancient establishment resisting against the modern world when it is nothing like this. A true conservative and reactionary man (that isn't a hypocrite) would never spend money on underage women to upheld their dating fantasies, this would make him an an absolute degenerate. He would've married at his early to mid 20's, would already have plenty of children and would be dedicating himself to his job and family. Likewise, a conservative and reactionary woman would also be married by this age and would not be "selling" herself publicly to appease these NEETs fantasies, she would never wear idol-like clothes and would not act like a child. A mother should act like a mother. Idols - and otaku culture - are nothing like this. At all. That's why it's always so funny to see people worried about some "mysterious and dangerous" modern movements that are going to taint their otaku culture because this same otaku culture just exists because traditional morals were already discarded. I was just waiting for someone to say something like that.

@souchan48 contrary to what it seems, I agree with you and with the points you made. I am not trying to say that parasocial relationships are unique to female idols and male fans. I am just astonished by that fact some people really believe they own the idol. This is what I cannot understand and it isn't even touching on women's rights topic, but general human rights. Humans shouldn't be owned. It isn't normal at all of someone to go absolutely crazy when an idol appears dating. I can understand being upset, even I am when this happens, but it stops there. If you start to hate an idol just because of that and wish the worst things to her, call her by heinous epithets and all this stuff, it's truly a pathological situation.

Another person tries to paint me as crazy for disliking this environment, but even active idols can hate this. One of such case is AKB member Sato Minami. She has already said how it disgust her when old men ask for her to do swimsuit shoots. No job should make people uncomfortable. Old fans are not the problem. I can imagine myself getting old and still be an idol fan because it brings me enjoyment. Fans should try to see their idol happy no matter what, but I guess the mentality is just different.

What also bothers me a bit is how some people on this thread tries to say this "idol and otaku" culture is just part of Japanese culture and it should be respected. This isn't true at all. As @Gofindnova has pointed, most of the Japanese general public considers this work environment to be inhumane and otaku people are not usually associated with being decent people in general. And most younger people in Japan are becoming considerably progressive and that's maybe one of the reasons why AKB can't become popular with young people, they're just disgusted by this environment in general. Teenage girls in specific will rarely become fans of the group. I still have many things to talk about this matter and I wish I could have organised my thoughts better, but now I'm in a hurry and need to go back to work. Maybe later I can complement my answer based on the responses to this comment.

 

I won't be surprised if they do choose money in the end and implement a full on dating ban, but I was trying to say mainly they should choose either or, and not have it dangling in the air as it is now.

I mean, they're not wrong though. And a lot of idols' rights correlate with women's rights - at what age is it okay to have idols performing in certain outfits, what sort of themes, styles and lyrics are okay to make them sing? How far are they required to go to please their fans?

I know things have changed already, but does anyone remember back in 2008, when someone in AKB48 (Oshima Mai? I don't fully remember who it was) made a blog post that men shouldn't stare at underage members' legs, and they made her read out an apology on the AKB48 show? It might have been 1ji 59fun, 0ji 59fun or early AKBingo days, but I do remember this.

As other people have also pointed out, it is a woman's rights issue as well as an LGBT issue that WLW relationships aren't taken seriously.

I mean, this discussion has happened a few times on this very thread - "Naachan is just experimenting now and will eventually settle with a man." People were happily watching her flirt very clearly in front of their own eyes as long as it was Yuiri or Komiharu or Sahho or whoever else, because they didn't take it seriously.

I haven't had the fortune of meeting Naachan, but I feel very close to my oshimen. As I mentioned two pages ago, I try and be realistic and remind myself we're not friends, just fan and member.

Spoiler: Off topic

That being said, I know my oshimen knows my name, my face, my age, what country I'm from, how much time zone difference we have and some other tidbits about me. Yeah, it might be played up for fan service, but she sounds excited when she sees my name on SHOWROOM. When I've won autographs of hers in the past, she wrote my name on the card before my slot even started, and showed me it during the slot saying "Look, I wrote your name while I was waiting for you~". During online talks, she will often comment on stuff that I've posted on twitter, even though she doesn't ever reply on twitter directly (I think they're not supposed to?).

Like I said, I'm staying realistic and I know I'm just a fan, but these girls will go quite some lengths to make their paying fans feel special. I'm by no means one of her top contributors, I'm not even in her Top 30 on SHOWROOM, and I still feel like she tries very hard.

Back on the thread topic... everyone I know who's met Naachan has been blown away by how attentive she is and how special she makes you feel.

 

never agreed with anything more than this.
I could legit not care less about anything they do as long as they are happy. They give us happiness so why shouldn't they get to have their own happiness? They are not our slaves.

 

And the funniest part is that these are the same people that celebrated queen elizabeth death because of the british empire, but when it's their worldview being shoved in other cultures suddenly is something that HAS to be done. Bunch of colonialists.

 

Of course they're not. That's why when they sign with AKB they know beforehand what are the group's rules and what people expect from them. And they also know that if they're tired of that they can leave whenever they want. Slaves this, slaves that... Who the Hell is pointing a gun to their heads?

 

There is no love ban though. She can date whoever she wants lol. So all the men getting pressed cause she held hands with a dude need to relax.

 

Of course she can. Please, Okada Nana, date whoever you want while being an idol. Do us that favour.

 

truf

 

Oh God... If I could say everything that is my mind right now...

 

It's like supporting a football club, getting relegated is painful but then getting promoted is ecstasy. There is an intense loyalty in supporting your football club and idols call on these same instincts which seem to be mainly in men.

 

Hmmm..About akb can't be popular with young generation these day because young gen are disgusted about the environment. To be frank, this reason sounds MEH to me. I just feel like...IF only you have done some research about the competition in jp idol industry or maybe take time to analyze akb strengths and weaknesses & compare it with their competitors . U wouldn't say this out. (Objection from me bro!!)

And about idol & otaku culture, I would say that their relationship is mutualism (where both depend on one another). If you guys have followed jp idol industry long enough, you would know how hardcore they are. Especially once there's news about their fav idol'sdating, I already can predict what kind of reaction we will see from these hardcore fan lol & as ya know, the aggressive reaction are expected reaction. You really can't expect all fans to act like "wowww congrats! u guys are perfect for each other, I'm going to continue to support you* that's just . You don't even understand them, then do not expect them to understand or think like u.

And If the comment toward idol is too hateful then, law & regulations will be the one to deal with them . U can just continue to support them. Those who felt disappointed about her action also can stop support her. That's it. The world continues to move on

 

Why not say it? I don't think you have anything to lose (unless you would break forum rules, then it's understandable )

 

Just reminding everyone, this is what Okada said during stage play:

"I know some fans are worried that I might get too close with men, but don't worry! Be relieved!"

Few months later...

"As far as I know, there is no love ban rule in the group so I'm just gonna do whatever tf I want to do! Right, Mion? Yuiri?!"

 

I’d like Nana, way back in the Ariyoshi AKB days. Enjoyed the Majime character, but then a lot of new crayies “fans” started branding her in a different “label” and I’d check out.

Now, this news in 2022 should be a DGAF moment in the AKB “fandom”. Sashi was the BAR, when it came to “scandal”. As long as the person got enough of a dedicated pay pigs “fanbase”, they will be alright.

So, in short… A “scandal” = A nothing burger.

Hey Nana, it was a fun ride and now it’s time to enjoy the next chapter in your life. So, I want leave you with this…

Spoiler

Nana Na Na, Nana Na Na… Hey Hey Hey… Goodbye!

Also… #JusticeForMaho