Stage48 Wiki - Organization & Discussion

Ok everyone, I think we should address the elephant in the room, because there have been some downright inappropriate comments in Nana's thread.

Nana has come out as non-binary (good for Nana!). I have just edited Nana's wiki page to explain it, and also cleaned up some older trivia and elaborated on the new article's contents.

However, Nana did not share preferred pronouns (such as she/her, they/them, she/they, anything goes, etc.). Nana's quoted words in the Asahi article have both "watashi" (she/feminine I) and "jibun" ("they"/non-gendered I) pronouns used interchangeably. [Please don't come at me about how watashi can be ungendered, and how jibun doesn't mean the same thing as English "they". I know! Keep reading].

Japanese and English are also obviously very different languages. Pronouns aren't used the same way in grammar, and Japanese LGBT culture is different from American LGBT culture. As far as I know, none of us here have experience being a non-binary person in Japan in 2023.

With all that said, we need to make a decision on what pronouns to use in Nana's article. I think our best option right now is to keep with she/her, for two reasons:

1. (This is the only reason that matters) Nana has not said what Nana's preferred pronouns are. It isn't our place to assume, either. Even though I would personally like to use she/they on the Wiki to match the Asahi article's, "watashi" and "jibun", it is also true that those words have multiple translations (people will be difficult about this), and that using those words in one interview doesn't mean Nana prefers she/they pronouns in other places. We don't know until Nana states it directly.
2. Nana used she/her pronouns during Nana's time as a 48G member, and the wiki is focused on detailing people's time and activities as 48 members. I do not like this logic, but I know it will be brought up because it already has. And if that's the argument some people will make, then so be it.

 

The glossary is a guide, not a requirement. It doesn't really apply to anyone or anything, it's just there to explain some commonly used terminology.

I've added an explanation, although I'm not sure what's so confusing about the term "regular member." I think you're reading too much into the term

On a side-note, I've also now added explanations for:

• Hanashikai
• Online vs real hanashikai
• 1-shot, 2-shot and sign kai
• Meguri

Edit: I've also just changed some of the terminology around the "Love Ban and other rules" part on that page. It previously said "most commonly known amongst fans as the 'Golden Rule,' a sacred rule..." and I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to it as a Golden Rule, so I don't think it's most commonly known as that. I also changed 'sacred rule' to 'often unwritten rule.' It felt a bit biased. I know my own opinion on the Love Ban is also biased, so please let me know if you feel the way it's currently written is too biased in the other direction.

 

Hello, I've noticed some mistakes in Nogi's and Sakura's releases:

- In the single Actually, the 5th gen song only included 9 members but the wiki says 10. Ikeda Teresa didn't participated in the single and song / MV at that moment.

- The song Bokutachi Sayonara from the single Hito wa Yume wo... didn't include Suzuki Ayane because it was previously mentioned that she wasn't going to participate in the single.

- The BACKS section doesn't mention the members for Sakurazuki.

And for Sakurazaka specifically, I want to make a suggestion for the Sakura Eight section, I know this is open for discussion and it's okay to do it so here I go:

We all know Sakurazaka started with a system in which divided members in Sakura Eight and BACKS (Which didn't have that name at the beginning), and that was maintained for the first 5 singles. The last two singles never mentioned the existence of Sakura Eight in there respectives senbatsu annoucements. But given the fact that there haven't been significant changes in these recent singles, I think is worthy to include the members of the 1st and 2nd row senbatsu members from 6th and 7th singles as Sakura Eight members, including a statement clarifying it's not an offcial designation (Like the one in the center section for each group and team).

 

Hidaritomo Ayaka is now affiliated with MR8.

https://mr8.jp/talent/hidaritomo‐ayaka

 

Sorry I'm afraid you're gonna have to explain more/provide more, I have no idea what this means

This is what it says on the wiki: "The BACKS members for each single are matched with one of the centers from Sakura Eight, and are in the third row for the corresponding songs with their matched center."

I tried to compare the "BACKS Members" page with the page for Samidare yo, but it lists members for the "Moriya Rena Center Song BACKS Members" and "Ozono Rei Center Song BACKS Members" but I can't see a Moriya or Ozono center song.

I can understand that the front eight members are the Sakura Eight are the two front rows, but I don't know what list to put down

 

Sorry, I see now what the mistake really is, the wiki mention the BACKS members of Sakurazuki (because that's the single with the Moriya and Ozono center song), but the tittle says Samidare yo, It's the Samidare yo BACKS info what's missing. For that single it should be Yamasaki and Morita center songs, not for Berisa because that was an all member song and there were BACKS members in the 2nd row of the formation (Habu, Harada and Ozono).

http://stage48.net/wiki/index.php/BACKS_Members

Yeah, that's the concept of BACKS members, because in that way Sakurazaka wouldn't have Unders like Nogi, hence why non-senbatsu members were featured in promotional pics and CD covers. The problem with Sakura Eight and BACKS started when Start OVer came out, in the senbatsu announcement there was no mention of Sakura eight and there weren't eight members in the two front rows like in the previous singles. Almost the entire fandom assumed that Sakura Eight was abolished but not being mentioned doesn't mean it no longer exists.
BACKS members have always appeared in a cover with their respective Sakura Eight center, and it's been like that even in Start Over, so based on you can assume that the 3rd row senbatsu members are technically BACKS in the same concept from the previous singles.

But in Shounin Yokkyuu the concept of BACKS changed, now is any member who's not in senbatsu, which is more like Nogi's Under. That's why the 3rd row senbatsu members cover didn't included the center like in every previous single. This makes things harder.

So for my suggestion:

I think for Sakura Eight you should add some note like "Even tough no official information was announced/provided, it can be assumed that these members are the Sakura Eight member for the following singles" and then list the members from the two front rows of Start Over and Shounin Yokkyuu, with the center's name in bold.

For BACKS is more difficult, it'll depend on the route you'd want to follow, if you want to keep their original concpet then you should just correct the info, add the Start Over 3rd row members as Karin center song and delete the Shounin Yokkyuu BACKS to only add it into the songs list with Inorina as center. Of course you'll have to add that the concept of the unit changed to the current one.

But if you want to change the list to match with the current concept then you should redo the list and list all the members together (not by Saku8 center anymore) with the center's name in bold (this is since Nagaredama).

Maybe you should keep both and the first list (the one that is about 3rd row members) could be hidden so the person who's reading the page clicks the "show" option. That's my suggestion.

BTW, thanks for correcting the info in Nogi singles but now the Trivia needs to be fixed because in Hito wa Yume wo it says final single participation of Suzuki Ayane when it's really is the previous one. Thanks in advance.

 

Okay, so I've changed "Samidare yo" to "Sakurazuki", so far, so good.

I've also added a "Yamasaki Ten Center Song BACKS Members" list for Samidare yo by using the formation list for the A-Side, but I can see Shakan Kyori and Koi ga Zetsumetsu Suru Hi also use the Sakura Eight, so do they also have BACKS members? How would I know which members are the BACKS Members for these songs, and how would you suggest differentiating between Samidare yo and Koi ga Zetsumetsu Suru Hi if they're both centered by Yamasaki Ten?

Next point, I'm happy to call the front two rows for Start Over! and Shounin Yokkyuu "Sakura Eight" and add a note that this isn't what they're officially called, just wondering if that's really necessary? Again, you can tell I know very little about Sakurazaka46, but if the group doesn't feel the need to use that term anymore, is it necessary to use it?

I think this makes the most sense from what I understand

Typically, we don't really change how things were previously even if a concept has changed now. For example, even if members change teams or graduate, we don't change which team they belonged to when a single released because at the time, they belonged to that team. So on that note, I think we should leave the songs up to Samidare yo as they are, with BACKS Members matched to the respective center song/member.

I think it makes more sense to simply add an explanation that the concept changed with Start Over!.

Easy fix Done!

 

For Samidare yo You should added the Morita Hikaru Center Song BACKS which are the one from Shakan Kyori. FYI, the formations of A-side and coupling songs were originally for more than one song. Since debut until Nagaredama there weren't any duos or units songs besides the ones for the senbatsu and coupling songs formations that were announced. So only add Hikaru's BACKS.

Well, it's a good question, the Saku 8 term was used for 5 of the 7 this group has, and even with the no mention of it the group still releases only 3 MV like when Saku8 was noticeable active. In Start Over, the B-side Drone Senkaichu, kept the same members from 2 front rows, like the B-side song centered by another Saku 8 member. So, everything so far is like the system Saku 8 is about is still active despite the term not being used recently, so I would think it would be better to add the not official Saku 8 until we see a bigger change like BACKS getting MV or the group having more than 3 MVs for futurre releases.

The BACKS term came back for the last single, so there's no reason to think Saku 8 wouldn't, at least for now.

Yeah, I think it's fine to do it that way. Although the concept actually changed in the 7th single, in Start Over the 3rd row members still shared the CD cover with the center, so that would make them the BACKS for that single. FYI, BACKS were never called that way when using the Saku8 term, so I think you could end the list with them. This make me realize that with the concept change BACKS are now some kind of low class Unders because their songs don't get MVs so they have to get lucky to appear in another MV.

Thank you for considering all of my comments.

 

I'll get to the above requests over the weekend; just wanted to bring this up with other editors since I said I would.

HKT called the new single Baketsu wo Kabure! in Latin alphabet on their official website. Argument is we also put Bagutte Ii Jan and Biisan wa Naze Naku Naru no ka, instead of Bug-tte or Beach Sandal. Opposing argument is that we don't always use the official Latin spelling since it's often simply not done correctly or too confusing (e.g. Sakamichi doesn't put any spaces in Latin transliterations of their song titles). Do we want to change バケツ to Baketsu or leave as Buckets?

 

Could you add the information that Sakaguchi Nagisa is in the new idol group LarmeR, which belongs to Sizuk Entertainment?

https://larmer.jp/profile/nagisa-sakaguchi
https://sizuk.co.jp/artists/nagisa-sakaguchi

 

@ajma93632 Okay, so I've added the Tamura Hono BACKS Members based on you saying the front rows for that song as well as Start over! itself had the same members; so I wrote down all participating members and crossed off the ones that were first two rows in Start over!, and the rest must be the BACKS Members.

I've also removed Kakushin teki Croissant from the big list with members, and added it to the small table below that contains songs by BACKS Members only.

I've also added the BACKS Members for Shounin Yokkyuu, and added a note for this and Start over! that the number of front row members differs from the previous 5 singles.

Final question: "Manhole no futa no ue" also uses senbatsu members. Do you know the line-up for this for the BACKS Members?

 

I vote we change to Baketsu, since that is what they used on the official website this time. It might help people navigate the wiki too: If they see it written as "Baketsu" on an HKT post and type "Baketsu" into the wiki, they might be confused when they don't see search results (or see "Buckets" instead!)