The Gamer Thread

^ I lost respect for Tekken after Tekken tag. After that, all the game was Jin vs. Steve and whoever could jab the fastest. But I agree with you that it's technically better than DOA. All DOA is, is who can counter better.

 

The reason why I stick with FFVII for 9 years is bcause later FF series just too disappointing maybe the graphic improved but it`s about story that I seek not graphic
Happy Yay!!!

 

QFT

I used to be a complete fanatic of FF, but me and many many other people stopped caring about them when VIII came out, and find VIII the worst RPG ever made, mainly because of one thing: they stopped caring about the game and started caring more about rendering boobs.

 

i recently been playing some old PS games, bushido blade 1 and xenogears

 

Yea, I think FFVII was such a good game that any FF that came after it could never surpass its excellence, which can be disappointing to some fans.

Not all the FFs have resorted to "rendering boobs" though. I never tried 8 or 9 so I have no opinion on those two. But you should try FFX. That game is amazing and it's 2nd only to FFVII in my ranking. The graphics are spectacular and the plot kept my lazy butt planted on the floor for several hours each day.

Speaking of cleavage, you know FFVII has Tifa right? Isn't she one of the most popular polygonal, sex symbols in the entire gaming world? Mmmm...polygons. *drools*

 

Wow .... finally someone like me shows up yes same with me after playing for 20 minutes I`ve already got bored with FFVIII which my friends asked me to try
It`s just doesn`t have the "feeling"
Happy yay!!!

 

Tekken 4 was terrible because of Jin and Steve, but Tekken 5 fixed that problem, and there are many characters that have a good chance competitively now. The good thing about Tekken is that there's a way around everything, and when there's two pro's going at it, it turns into a battle of wit (I wouldn't actually know because I'm not a pro lol, but I've seen it happen). Like you say with DOA it all depends on who can counter better (or who's luckier). The combo's are incredibly easy in DOA and by the time you've recovered from being distracted by panty shots and jiggling boobs, you've already been punched through the wall.

If you haven't noticed I'm just being an ass because I can't play DOA anymore

While VIII probably isn't the best FF, I still found it pretty enjoyable (although I only made it to the 2nd disk). The best thing about VII is materia, if you had that in VIII and X (those are the only ones I've played ) they'd be really good games. In terms of story I preferred X (not including X-2 which sucked).

And yeah like foojason said VII had Tifa, who has breasts bigger than her upper body + her head.

 

I know you probably didn't mean it, but I'm going to say this anyway !

It's seriously not like that, AT ALL. Firstly, if you are going to go counter crazy, I'll go throw crazy, and you're screwed. If I'm going throw crazy, they can just get juggle crazy. People need to stop thinking that the game runs on counters, they're basically just a more much interesting version of blocking (though, DOA has blocking too).

The combos are incredibily easy, but that's because they are short. Juggling however, isn't easy, at all, and that's where you'll get your damage. Being able to counter means you don't have to wait while someone is performing a 15 hit combo on you. If you know what's coming, you can counter it, but if THEY know you are going to counter, they can just do something else (or throw you).

And PLEASE don't act as though Tekken and Soul Calibur aren't as pervy as DOA. I mean seriously, DOA has boobs and panties, but Soul Calibur has Ivy... enough said. If you want to play the game for that, play it for that, if you don't, don't... simple. Now I'm not going to start downing Tekken, because you know what, I don't own it, and can't really have a honest opinion on the gameplay. I'm so sick of people just saying what they read.

All I can say is DOA tag > Tekken tag, and they don't even need to dedicate an entire game to it. And trust me, these combos aren't easy.

The only thing I seriously hate about DOA (along with the pervyness, but EVERY female in games are complete sluts anyway) is how the ninjas do have a REAL advantage over everyone else.

Oh my, I get so bitter when it comes to games. Sorry about that, CD !

 

This means war now. WARRRR!


(Please note that I haven't played DOA3 before but from the 30 minutes of DOA4 that I played and from what I've seen in videos, apart from the new moves/characters etc, the overall gameplay hasn't changed at all. Even the speed is around the same as DOA2)

The whole rock, paper, scissors thing that goes on in DOA is also present in Tekken and other 3D fighters (i.e. Blocking beats juggles, juggles beat throws, throws beat blocking. In DOA's case counters beat juggles too.) The difference between Tekken and DOA in this case is that in Tekken, unless someone is extremely crap, you won't win by just using throws or juggles (and it's obvious you can't win by blocking). But with DOA, you can win just by countering, throwing or juggling. If it was hard to counter, throw or juggle then it wouldn't be much of a problem, but compared to Tekken, it's so easy to pull those off:

THROWS: In DOA throws can be done by pressing one button + a direction button if you want a different type of throw (there are a few exceptions). And correct me if I'm wrong but for most throws, you can't break them, which is a major flaw. Even the more complex throws are usually just a bunch of direction combos + one button. In Tekken, you need to press two buttons simultaneously for basic throws, and more complex throws require totally different button combinations. Also the throws in Tekken can be broken (which is extremely hard to master, but very rewarding), and can also just be avoided by ducking (with the exception of a few low throws that only certain characters have). So basically while throws in Tekken are extremely useful, they can be avoided or broken, whereas in DOA, the throws can't be broken and they're pulled off extremely easily.

COUNTERING: I used to like the idea of countering, and I'll admit it makes DOA more interesting. But lately I've reaslied how annoying they can be because they can decide the match due to sheer luck. Not to mention they take off a load of damage for something that can be pulled off by pressing one button plus a direction button (it's basically as easy as throws, only with timing involved...and even then it's not hard). In Tekken, only certain characters have a countering move, and usually they're different in terms of how you do them and what they do. The timing involved is also more difficult, if you use it once and fail, you're basically screwed because of the recovery time. While in DOA you can see the characters having fits while trying to counter because they're abusing it, and if you're unlucky, they'll be successful.

Sorry about that, when I said combo's I meant juggles, but yeah like you said even the combos they give in the command list are short and easy. In Tekken each character is given at least one 10-hit combo, and although they shouldn't really be used unless you're desperate, they're still far more difficult to learn than any DOA combos. While on the topic of the command list, it should be noted that Tekken has a lot more moves than DOA (unless it's changed a lot since DOA2). Also a lot of moves are different in terms of effects and damage.

About juggles, there's no doubt in my mind that the juggles in Tekken are more complex than in DOA. I could find DOA juggles for a character straight after learning their moveset (which wouldn't take long considering how small the moveset is compared to Tekken). For Tekken I'd either have to wait until I've gotten very good with a character to find juggles, or just go online to find them (and it would still be a chore to actually pull them off). Speaking from a beginner's point of view, I'd still say the DOA juggles are easier, mainly because there's only two attack buttons (punch and kick). You could just find them by button bashing (when in doubt, just PPPK). Tekken is also a button basher, but it would be near impossible to find the best juggles by button bashing.

You can see the difficulty difference just by watching a few videos online. From what I've seen, the Tekken 'pros' are a lot more ruthless than the DOA 'pros'. Here are some video's comparing the two:

TEKKEN PROS: HERE and HERE. These guys are good, to see other matches just look at the user's other SBO videos. To get this good, I guarantee you they had to be aware of each attacks frame rates (i.e. the speed of each attack), that in itself is extremely difficult. It may look like they're not doing much, but trust me these guys are in a complete battle of wits, not one wrong move goes unpunished. I'd consider myself to be pretty decent at both Tekken and DOA, but to get to this level, I'd need to train a hell of a lot with EACH character, and then learn all the juggles and frame data.

DOA PROS: HERE and HERE. At the moment I can't load the video's properly, but I've seen them before, and although they're good, I could probably reach close to that level in a few weeks with some intense sessions. It's best to ignore the fact that the winner is a complete and utter penis head. I'm also assuming he's actually a pro.

Tekken is nowhere near as pervy as DOA. Have you seen Dead or alive xtreme beach volleyball? That must be worth like 1000 Ivy's in terms of perviness. Tekken isn't really pervy at all.

I didn't like Tekken Tag anyway, but that's ancient, and Tekken hasn't done tag since, so I'll definitely agree that DOA has better tag. Although those combo's in that video aren't easy, they're not impressive unless done in an actual fight. That's in training mode, and a lot of those hits can be countered easily.


I'm really sorry for the essay, but to conlcude, while I enjoy both games immensely, Tekken to me is definitely the more solid fighting game in almost every way that matters. DOA is a hell of a lot of fun, but the price it pays for the fun factor is that it's not at all technical. Just like Virtua fighter can be so technical that it's boring.

 

yeah I also thought the same way, but because back then I was quite a RPGs addict, so no matter how bad it is I must finished what I had started, the only nice thing that still clinging in my mind from FF VIII are only the catchy card game backsound and the lion heart gunblade ^^

 

I'm not sure how to reply CD, because I wasn't comparing DOA to Tekken (only on tag). I do want to say first though, that I love both DOA and Tekken. I havn't owned any Tekken game after Tekken 3 (though I have played the others, but not long enough to be good at them), which is why I obviously have to be DOA bias.

I havn't played Tekken anywhere near enough to make any valid comparisons to DOA. I do, however, know that Tekken is a LOT more technical than DOA, but I MUCH prefer simple fighting games, hense I prefer DOA. I am however sick of people bringing DOA down, that's why I got all snappy before, haha.

BUT, I still want to change your anti-DOA views, so here I go:

Well, you can win by just throws and juggling in any fighting game. It just means you're against a REALLY boring opponent.

They changed the counter system in DOA4. It's is pretty hard to counter, and like I said, if you just keep constantly countering without working on the timing, you'll get thrown to death. Same in Tekken, if you don't stop blocking... you'll get thrown to death.

Throws are a lot easier in DOA than Tekken, but from what I remember, throws in Tekken are always quite powerful. Throws in DOA are pretty much nothing unless it's going against a counter (which means you need to know a counter is coming).

Most DOA throws can be broken out of. Ducking can also avoid high throws in DOA. All DOA characters have multiple low throws for duck or low counter whores.

I personally think there is a skill somewhere in predicting moves.

Before timing it, you need to know which counter you are going to do. High counter, mid-punch counter, mid-kick counter or low counter. It isn't all done by one button, if that was what you were thinking. I don't know about Tekken, but the movelist in DOA is big enough for people to keep their moves shuffled.

You don't have to be unlucky, if they're being that predictable you can just throw 'em.

I'm sure that's another preference. I'd rather learn a few large, low damage combos than one or two huge damage, extremely difficult to pull of combos.

I'm just going to ignore that bit, because if I'm being honest, I don't care. I'm really not a fan of high level or pro play, I just like keeping it simple and playing my friends for fun. I'm really not interested in the sort of "Helena's framerate is -1 on Leifang's for this move, therefore she has a guardbreak advantage when using p+qcf+k".

All I can say is, after watching all four videos, DOA is SO much more entertaining to watch.

Mistake on my part, I didn't mean to write "Tekken and Soul Calibur aren't as pervy as DOA", I meant don't say that Tekken and Soul Calibur aren't pervy in general. Like I said, ALL females in games are just total sluts. I'd consider Anna Williams quite the whore. I do know that DOA has vollyball, but trust me, I have never played, and will never play that game. It's just... eugh.

But it's a bit like saying I'm going to stop being an AKB48 fan because of the underage bikini shots. I HATE them, but I'll just get over it because the things I like about AKB48 outweigh it. Same applies to DOA and the perv factor.

Well to me, the fun factor >>> the technical factor.

Basically we could have said that at the start, but it's been a long time since I have a good debate, so nevermind. Haha.

 

I've never played DOA and tekken I've just played that one for ps1. BUT in Soul Calibur I'm a master , still I prefer, in fighting games, Street fighter or old KOF ones

 

Well now I just feel stupid Ah well.

Well just juggling can be used to win in other fighting games, but in Tekken at least, you can't win just by throwing, because all you need to do is duck (assuming the player knows how to duck). In DOA you can win just by throwing and countering. To me that's extremely stupid and unbalanced for a fighting game.

How has it changed? I'm still sure it can't be that difficult, you're still probably just pressing one button + the directions.

Not if you duck or break the throws

Throws aren't as powerful now as they were in Tekken 3. In Tekken, the throws do around 35 points of damage, and considering that the average juggle does 50+, it isn't that much.

How do you break out of throws? Do you just have to press the throw button at the right time? I honestly don't remember being able to break throws in DOA2 unless they were combo throws. I'll give DOA the benefit of the doubt on throws seeing as they can apparently be broken.

Not when you're the one attacking. You can't really deny that when it comes to counters, you can win just by guessing where your opponent is going to hit. Afterall you have a 1 out of 3 chance of being right...which is what I don't like. Actually my main problem isn't counters, I like the idea. What annoys me is the amount of damage they do. They really need to tone down the damage on counters, it ruins it tbh.

In DOA2 counters were done with 2 buttons. Which still doesn't exactly require much skill. What's the difference between a mid-punch and mid-kick counter in terms of execution? Aren't they done the same way?

Are they actually shuffling different moves, or are they just playing around with the same ones. e.g. instead of pressing PPPK, they press PP, then they pause, and then press PPPK. It's basically the same moves but with different variations. It was like that in DOA2, where you have a combo, and the next move will be basically the same one but instead of a punch at the end, it's a kick. Even when doing that there were only like 20 combos, maybe 50 moves including the throws and useless special ones (compared to the 100+ stuff you get in Tekken).

So would I, but does DOA have any huge damage, extremely difficult to pull off combos? Not that it's really important in the end.

That's not the point

Did you actually think Master was a pro? You could probably beat him after a few training sessions.

I was actually going to mention her, but I was hoping you didn't know who she was.

I wasn't saying Tekken isn't as fun because it's more technical btw. Both games are fun, but for DOA, the simplicity can be a bit annoying at times.

It's not much of a debate if you spend most of it arguing with yourself though lol. It's not the first time I've lost the plot though is it

 

Just some stuff to say:

Tekken 2 throws were very powerful, yet now the throws in Tekken are oftenly refered as a joke. Mainly because I could (not now since I haven't played in a long time) tech out of 95%+ throws by looking at the animation at the beginning of the throw in Tekken 5. They have something like 60 frames to press the button/s to tech out of them, and are extremely easy to tech after some practice. What are the 5% throws I can't tech out all the time? Those that had the same or very same starting animation, and must be teched out with a different combination of buttons. Add to that low damage and even a few of them have frame disadvantage and I must admit that throws are sucky now.

About DoA, I heard that the 4th level of countering was something made to just so countering wasn't that easy, which is a good thing since DoA's two biggest problems were the facts that everyone though that the game was all about countering and seeing how the skirts go high on the ventilator stage. Given the fact that the game seems very rigged from an average skill level player does not help the game at all. I cannot talk more about them since I haven't played these on a long time (like many others, I will never touch an Xbox, I'm still crying cause I'm stuck at Windows if I want to play games, I don't want consoles to be sucked by them too).

*Note, I'm not talking bad about DoA really, just telling what I have observed from other fellow players.

Right now the only fighting game I'm playing is Guilty Gear XX Accent Core. And a lot of doujin games such as Melty Blood, Eternal Fighter Zero, Super Cosplay Taisen, Glove on Fight, Party Breaker, and a pletora of others that I don't remember and since I'm not on my house right now can't check.

 

Rawr. DOA is not just about countering. If you try to counter the whole round, you're dead. In DOA 4, there are 4 types of counters. One for high hits, one for mid-air punches, one for mid-air kicks, and one for low hits. You can only choose one type of counter so there's a 75% chance that you will take damage and only a 25% chance that you successfully counterattack.

Countering is a double-edged sword. If you successfully counter, that's great, but if you miss, the damage you take will be increased more than usual. In my opinion, this technique defines the newbs from the pros. Countering a newbie would be very easy since he would be extremely predictable with his/her repeated button-mashing. However pros would know when to make variations in their combos to avoid being easily countered.

Grabbing and throwing is not as easy as you think either. You can't just hit someone then instantly grab them. Your hand would go right through the opponent leaving you open to a full scale onslaught. It seems the only times you're able to grab someone is when they are blocking or trying to counter. But some characters can grab opponents who get knocked in the air. (I was going to say knocked up, but that just sounds wrong )

 

You must have the reflexes of a ninja

Even when practicing, I find it hard to break throws (even though I know they're coming). It really isn't simple. For many successful throws, it's near impossible to determine which throw it is just by looking at the animation, because you only see it for a split second (if at all), and then you have to actually figure out which buttons to press. So yeah breaking throws is not simple, which is why you still see pro's getting thrown all the time.

DOA isn't just about countering, but it is possible to win just by countering (you might need to throw in a couple jabs and throws). Either way you wouldn't need to know a lot of combos.

 

...Way to dis my favourite game ever. D: I loved VIII... And I love Tactics (advance, idk if there were other versions)... And X and X-2... I got XII for my birthday though and hate hate hated it. >< Go awaaaay new battle system.

...I may have mentioned this before. I'm so bad with remembering what I've said and what I kept in my head. XD

 

An easy one to show my example is Jin's normal throws. Note that I just listed the first person that went into my head .

Whenever you see a throw of Jin, if you see him moving a lot (aka trying to move towards you), press 2, if he's still, press 1. Anyway, the truth is that there's like 15 frames to input a break command. The worst one is if he inputs the throw that needs 1+2 to be broken, since that one is hard to predict.

He has four throws (except the ones from left/right/behind, but those are easy to counter also when you see that their on your sides and have a good orientation practice), the 1+3 throw means that teching will leave you at a frame disadvantage and with your back to your opponent. The 2+4 throws leaves you at almost the same frames, and with your front to your opponent. The QCB also starts without him moving and 1 will break it, just like 1+3, and uses the "I teched out of special throw" animation. As I said before, your best bet is UF+1+2, which looks really sick and at least for me its the least one I expect so I never have my mindset for that. But use it too much and you're still going to be teched. I heard from other people that you have to see the arm Jin grabs to get a hold of what to counter, but 1.-I never realize if he grabs the left or right arm and 2.-It's just too much for me to notice it really.

When I just started playing Tekken 5, I really loved the throws, and though that they had at last returned throws to a somewhat powerful level (since they were really lacking from 3 upwards). But going to play 2 to 3 credits daily at the arcades taught me otherwise. In fact maybe I got so used at throws because I use them on all games to a real extent (I have a history of grabbing grapplers by using normal throws in KoF).

Anyway, as I said I'm a person who normally inputs FRCs in GGXX more than 90% of the time (even things like Potemkin Buster's FRC), so that means I'm good at timing (moar like I practiced that a lot). In case you don't know, the FRCs have 3 frame windows normally (and the game runs at 60fps), so button mashing does little to help the FRCs.

 

I think the 1st Tactics was on the Playstation, but I've never played it. I did play Tactics advance, but I never completed it because I got to the final boss and lost, usually for me that means I just give up

That explanation does help...but for me, I still think it'll be pretty hard to put into action. I'll just need to practice more.

 

I'm sorry, but it's the truth (mainly because so many new RPG games followed what we call "the VIII filosofy" and thus hate it because there's ) and sometimes truth hurts.

I can see that you started playing RPGs on VIII, and someone always have a special place on their heart for their first game (mine was FFI), and given that you have a limited knowledge about them, you'll always give them a higher rating. It happened to me with Gundam Wing, back when I started watching anime I loved it and was a big big fan, yet now I see as the worst Gundam series ever.

Anyway, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance was something like a step up from the original while also being a step down.

In terms of gameplay, luckily the judge system was revised and made "bearable" (since between the original system there was also the "you cannot kill" rule, a unit is considered killed if you don't revive it in 3 turns since you die, and in this game you were supposed to have 3 turns until you KOed the first enemy to clear the stages, which would have made it extremely difficult, and was so hated that you couldn't kill on any stage that they revised the game just to remove it). But the most important thing was that clases were made a lot more balanced, because on the original you were forced to always have certain clases while some were useless, and in this game having a balanced team was a lot better than needing 75% overpowered classes to beat the stages.

But the thing that players didn't like at all was the fact that the story was a lot weaker, while having the game easier to players, which many hardcore fans of the original disliked because many people thinks that the more difficult the better, and FFT exceeded at that point. Truth be told most Strategy games fans like the exceeding difficulty, I still remember the debate about how Super Robot Taisens after R sucked because now the "difficult stages" are those were you lose units, while on R and before the "easy stages" are the ones where you lose few units.

About XII: We use to kid that because they saw so many people using bots in XI that they though that maybe having a game that includes the bots was the way to go.

Final Fantasy XII: You don't play the game, the game plays you.


Damn, I believe I'm doing post with too much text on the general forum, I'll try to lower the blocks of text, but I cannot say I will.