Single AKB48 32nd [Koi suru Fortune Cookie] (2013/08/21)

The idea that idols can't be respected musical acts at the same time that is being permeated through this forum is so unfortunate.

It is very saddening. Not only is management afraid to get a more positive reputation, but the fans are also completely pessimistic. I can't believe AKS wants to be remembered as "That group that cheated their way through all the sales records." Even Arashi and SMAP have a 10000x better reputation and are genuinely loved by most of japan with literally no gimmicks(Arashi's concert dvds even sell into the 800k range with no tickets or anything like that).



I hope to dear god that AKS cleans up their image. They act like being idols and being musical acts are mutually exclusive when they really are not.

 

I don't know where your post come from (pretty much out of nowhere in this thread, unless I missed something), but here is my opinion - the idea that idols can't be respected, or management is afraid to get a more positive reputation, is pretty much in your head (or haters / 2ch trolls' head, not saying you are one though since you obviously aren't). If you are looking for a whole group of good performers, then I'd say you shouldn't be looking at idols

There is a difference between saying idols aren't respected and idols aren't expected to be as skilled as artists. Do normal people look down on idols? No. Does that mean they expect idols to be as good as artists? Hell, no. Why? Because they (idols and artists) belong to different categories. For lack of better terms in my mind, artists are performers while idols are entertainers. They have different goals and people look for different things in them, so compare one to another is like comparing oranges and apples, or (since we are talking about music) pop / rock with opera. Is opera considered a better art form? Does that mean pop / rock artist aren't as respected as opera artist? Well, unless you belong to the 1% musical judge elitist team, you probably don't respect one more than the other - in the end, for normal people, it's my bias(es) is / are better than yours.

So with that said, does management team need to "cleans up their image"? Personally, I would say no, if that means drastically change the group from idol to artist. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying they have to be bad at performing (bad is objective, btw), but being as good as artists should only be a bonus, not a requirement. AKB is the idol group you can meet group, so they are doing exactly what that term suggested - idols who interact with fans frequently. It's not like SMAP or Arashi are loved because they are talented, either. Even SMAP themselves admited publicly (more than once) that they aren't talented. People love them, or idols in general, because they work hard, be serious at what they do, have entertaining / lovable character images and generally cheer you up. SMAP and Arashi is much more well-loved than AKB, that's true. But it has little to do with their talent in performing, and more to do with the fact that they command the most crazy force that surpass even wota (in layman term, fangirls), plus they are male group, and they have been around longer.

But...but... if things don't change, will AKB be remembered as ...ummm... "that group that cheated their way through all the sales records."? Are you seriously afraid that that will happen, or just getting affected by all the sarcasm around, lol? If one day Aki-P decide to disband AKB, 10 years from then, people are going to remember it as "the successful idol group that had multiple sales records". That's it. It's not like other female idol groups, heck, even male JE idol groups don't have handshake events or other gimmicks. Including Arashi, if you don't know.

For reference and conclusion, I'm just going to link this old arama article about male idol http://aramatheydidnt.livejournal.com/3770759.html

 

I don't need a lesson on JE. I know where they come from.

I think you're taking this a bit too far than i intended. I did NOT mention artist anywhere and whether or not AKB48 touches a lick of what they're performing is not my concern. I used the term musical act which AKB48 IS. The thing you're not really getting is that i don't understand why AKS won't make them perform better(so much for theater based idol group doing so little theater activities). like i have said. Being an idol and performing good are NOT mutually exclusive and both are not extremely difficult tasks to anyone who is dedicated to the job.

This is mainly from reading posts from HRP and a few select others. Reading that Japan record awards is under fire for letting AKB win or reading that they're selling handshakes and not cds is something that should not be happening. Even many people dislike AKB's ways of selling huge amounts of records. I understand the handshake process but when it comes to the point that people don't care about the CDs or the music, that is when i lose hope because AKB is primarily not only an idol group but also a musical act as music makes up the other bulk of their activities. It's great that they sell lots of handshakes. There's no reason they need to have a negative reputation in everything else either. Reading all these posts about how the Oricon president is mad at AKB's sales method, and many other people on 2ch proclaiming that normal people in japan don't even care about new music nowadays and how many of them feel like they can't trust oricon charts. That's sad.

Also, have you heard Ohno Satoshi from Arashi? That guy can sing just as well as most male artists can sing. I'm not even sure if AKB has a rep that can match him. Although many people are starting to believe that exile promotes like an idol (because of including a ticket in their cd to a concert), they still have tons of respect for them due to their skill.

I hate being pessimistic but the criticism that is coming their way to AKB is just sad as there's nothing really you can say to them because they are simply true. Even reading about FNS and kouhaku, i just can't at all these simple to fix things.

 

really? wow..

is there really any article or thread of oricon's people annoyed with akb method?

please share it, so we akb fans can understand even for a little.

 

@icehism:
What would you suggest AKS to do to make the 48 girls perform better? It's not like they are intentionally holding the girls back, you know. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under impression that besides school and idol works time (i.e: PV / CMs filming, TV programs filming, perform in theater, group events - charity / handshake / janken / sousenkyo etc.), the girls do have idol dance / voice lessons, or even non-idol voice lessons for some (the ones with solo releases). They aren't spending their off-work time playing around, so what else they can do? Unless you are talented at singing / dancing, you aren't going to be good at both idols work and non-idol practices at the same time. But being talented (at performing) isn't what is required for AKB, or idols in general - it's a bonus, not a requirement.
Being an idol and performing good aren't mutally exclusive, true, but good at performing isn't a must for an idol group. People aren't looking at comedian / hosts / variety personalities and expect them to be good at dancing / singing either, are they? Not to mention that "being good" is quite subjective. Sure, AKB isn't as good as artists, but are they bad comparing to other female idols groups (bar the unorthodox ones)? I wouldn't say so, especially after that live performance of the rising MomoClo I saw before (the one in the same program in which AKB performed that loooong name Disney song I can't remember)...

Regarding the record awards. Personally, I always find it ridiculous when people said that AKB was only winning because of their sales. Before AKB won their first award - "Records award is like Japan version of Grammy, the winner is decided based on various criterias, that's why AKB may never get it". After AKB won their awards - "Meh, record award doesn't mean much nowadays, it's all based on sales". Come on, people? Double-standard much? LOL.
In my opinion, I'd follow the "before" definition - "the winner is decided based on various criterias". Sales is a part of it, sure, but it isn't the decisive part; There would still be quality, popularity, backers influence, etc. (ask the jury team, i'm not them). AKB won because they were the best (thanks to the big sales - hello, innovation / gimmicks in CDs - and popularity bringing up their overall "score", I guess?) due to EXILE not being there. For this year, while I wouldn't say that the Record Awards was "under fire for letting AKB win", I do understand that if they could help it, they would prefer for someone skilled to get the awards (which they did, thanks to EXILE coming back) - it's supposed to be the equivalent of Grammy after all. It's already impressive that great sales and popularity helped to carry a female idol group (which, by definition, does not have their highest priority on performing skills) there twice. It's more like idols are of different category as artists than they aren't being respected.

I wouldn't even bother to comment on 2ch users. You have followed Japan entertainment long enough, you should have known that 2ch users now are mainly trolls and their opinion aren't to be taken seriously.

@3Liger2000:
I wouldn't say Oricon is annoyed with AKB method. That rumour started with a comment from Oricon's CEO
"There are a lot of methods now, like adding tickets to CDs or handshake passes but Arashi is taking on the conventional and empirical method. They have this image that each one of their fans genuinely buys their releases. With that in mind, I want you to understand how amazing this record is.".
Make of it what you will, but I think it's more of a praise to Arashi than dissing other groups. I'm saying other groups because bonuses (i.e tickets) are a popular things for most female (and even some male) idol groups now, people just automatically link that to AKB since AKB is the big one + they pioneer the putting ticket method (although it had been used before AKB was created).
After all, getting to CEO spot means he is a successful man, I'd assume that he knows not to fire shots at big names in public. And if Oricon is annoyed with AKB (or female group selling method in general), they can always change their counting rules (not counting theater CD, for example) like they did before.

 

This thread is... long but some questions are interesting...
- Should idols be respected? AFAIK, the words "idol" and "respected" rarely go together [wonder] . Idols want to be loved, not respected.
- Can idols be successful after their "graduation"? Most likely no but sometimes yes. Ayase Haruka used to be gravure idol. For true skill, see Hikari Mitsushima who used to belong to Folder 5 and is currently one of the most talented actress of her generation.
- Should idols aim to be skillful? No, but idols need their "selling point". The idol field is crowded and you need to be unique. For example, Momoclo is known for their energetic performance and their athleticism. In short, idols need to be good at something. Meanwhile, currently, I don't see any selling points of AKB except their population. In fact, some idol groups even advertise themselves as "different from AKB". It's disappointed that such huge group like AKB needs to rely on hatare and ponkotsu.
- Do management hold the girls back in skills? Yes. The crazy schedule of AKB girls are partially because they exploit a small set of girls to earn money by CM and handshakes. These things do not grow the girls but only earn money. A business needs to earn revenue but there should be a balance between earning short-term revenue and growing for future. Furthermore, give experience to the girls who want it rather than some top-down "push" (e.g. I doubt all 7 girls in Chu Chu Chu or whatever they are called want to become actress to cast them in a drama)
- Should AKB win JRA? No idea. The judges have their reasons and there are no should/shouldn't. A better question is....
- Will JRA's prestige be damaged if it is given to AKB? Yes. The expectation for these awards is usually that they are chosen based on quality (if chosen based on sales, just ask Oricon, faster). Meanwhile, an aspect of a song's quality is the quality of its singer performing it. We all know AKB is incapable of delivering KFC live.

 

You guys are thinking too much seriously
EXILE wins award this year is simply for easy reason:
their major member are retiring this year (2013 i mean)
so isnt it expected for them to win? its just like a gift to him rite?

have you even wondered what 2ch reaction about akb not winning?
if you havent, most of them felt that Koichun worth winning.
Will JRA get bad image if akb won? Depends on the song.
I found Flying get worth winning, but managuu is not. Really depends on the song.

Ps: regarding arashi. they never sing live (at least recently). I am fan of both group.
But i can find soo many members in akb that can sing better than Ohchan (Ohno Satoshi) LIVE.
That despite my ichiban in arashi is Ohchan. I mean seriously.
There is Wasamin, Sakiko, Takamina (though she still has to go training but she has potential and even with her current skill,her voice is there), Mocchi, etc etc. There was also Yuttan, Sayaka, etc etc.
Please.

 

^
I'm sorry. You thought that Flying Get was worth-winning and Managuu wasn't? A lot of people can have many different opinions about this...But if you stated it like that...then, wasn't it the same? AKB just won with Managu in 2012 just because it's the last Acchan-center/Acchan-featured single? Even I don't like Koichun that much, I'm still disappointed with AKB losing. But yeah, whoever and what song wins will be controversial anyway

 

Koichun feels like more of a "winning" song than Flying Get and Managuu. I feel they would have gotten it that time over EXILE.

 

This thread raises a lot of interesting points in regards to how qualified AKB might be to receive an award. I suppose album sales really don't mean much when you put into perspective how well known it is where those numbers come from, and quality would have to matter if they are nominated in the first place. If idol groups are competing for the top award, then I guess the effect of certain records must be what is chosen as a means of criterion as well. I honestly liked this one to win, even more so than Sounds Good last year.

So AKB's music has an impact on the current music scene to be mentioned alongside other groups, which may be more professionally constructed and trained to a certain degree in comparison. That's how I see them being able to compete these last few years. The fandom elevates the group to a larger stage because of how much the music affects them, and that has to play a role in how the music is viewed and judged in it's importance. I would even go as far as to say that Sounds Good probably rode on the momentum of the previous two years to win like it did.

 

^
Hm...if it's like this, I don't know what to say anymore I,myself think that Koichun sure had its momentum back in 2013. It had big promotion with easy-to-follow-dance and it's well received by the public and ranked constantly high on rechocoku or such. But why it didn't win? People might think "If Managu can win, why won't Koichun?" right? We can say anything we think it's logical to make thousands explanation but it just...seems useless. But that's if we compare AKB's songs with AKB's songs...the situation and condition in every year will be different. And it's not like we can win it forever...sure we aim the award every year Let's take it back this year!

Sorry,I didn't intend to offense you. Please forgive me

 

^
Haha, I'm not offended, it's just discussion

I agree momentum doesn't mean you will win an award. It seems Flying Get won because of how big AKB was getting around the time and they finally got recognized as a force in the music industry, then Sounds Good because it was Acchan's celebratory last single. With KFC this year, and it did catch on big in comparison to the last two winners, I don't know what other single they could of nominated from them as Record of the year to be honest. If anything, I hope it gives Aki-P a bit of motivation this year to try even harder since AKB lost. I'm sure he would want them to win again, so maybe we'll see AKB make a comeback soon enough.

 

With or without winning JRA, Koisuru Fortune Cookie is well-recognized by the public and you can assume it's one of the boom in Japan during the second half of 2013. That itself is already an acknowledgement of Koisuru Fortune Cookie's popularity. Some of the comments from Japanese sites also thought that Koisuru Fortune Cookie worth the win lol.

 

Honestly I doubt you know what you are talking lol. I said Flying get worth winning because it is ranked more highly on Joysound karaoke ranking and rechochoku while Managuu is not ranking well. Its just based on reception too. And Managuu doesnt win just because it is last single with Acchan lol . Summer singles are usually performed much more often than the other singles. Ponishuu, ebikachuu. Look at how many times they are performed compared to Iiwake! Maybe and Flying get. And that year, the nominated one was Managuu, who was performed much more than the other singles. Not because Acchan last single or whatever. Of course, Koichun was much more deserving to win than both Flying get and managuu. i mean they are on different level to the point that many (or most) people in 2ch actually said that koichun is the most deserving song to win. :music:

 

^

Sorry (again). I didn't say that Managu won because it's the last Acchan featured or such...it's just because you said that EXILE won because their major member retiring, so they give them the award as a gift(?) And I think, if your point of view of EXILE's situation was like that then wasn't it the same to AKB48 won in 2012 (when Acchan leaving)?

Yes. I know you like Koichun and I respect that. You took every post too seriously...
And I'm sorry for being that stupid to the point I don't even know what I am talking about.

 

http://majide2ch.blogspot.sg/2013/12/ay ... wards.html
few selected post from 2ch regarding the award
http://majide2ch.blogspot.sg/2014/01/ex ... -2013.html



@shania
you know the difference dont u? by the time the award is give acchan had already graduated. this is not the case with exile. and please graduation and retirement is different thing. most likely retirement means he will not in geinoukai while graduation is not neccesarily the case.
anyway even oricon link the award to Hiro retirement. what can u expect?
japanese entertainment is more than akb.
and acchan.

 

yes yes, akb's fans is just about as many as people who posting in 2ch, like how many? 5!?, 9!? or 20!? where is the other million people??

oh please, with that kind of gigantic promo every single who receive it would become big as kfc.

 

Oshima Yuko, Takahashi Minami, Watanabe Mayu and Kojima Haruna performed Koi suru Fortune Cookie with SAflo FAmily on YUME SP [さんま玉緒のお年玉!あんたの夢をかなえたろかSP] on TBS 12 Jan 14
http://www.tbs.co.jp/yume-sp
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxbgyAN_9LU[/yt]
Backup http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzu1LNqJxtQ

 

^
OMG that is my school's choir, so proud

 

You should have joined it , and now you would have performed with AKB48.