Should AKB48 try to break into the Korean market?

Two cases = lots of idols do surgery. Oh I see.

If plastic surgery was so common among Japanese man and women,
these two cases wouldnt even make a headline. It's exactly because the number of idols having surgery is countable, that these news can make headline.

You dont see two japanese actress or actors having similiar faces rite? This is different compare to nowadays Korean idols and dramas. (By that, I mean the younger generation). (Instead, compare them with old classic drama like Endless Love or heck the the My girl and Full House era? They still looks different to each other at that era).

In fact, the articles you present here only highlights how the societies IN GENERAL (MAJORITY) views plastic surgery as things that has negative connotation, or things that is not normal.

And for the "Japan yen is stronger...." news were written so long ago. furthermore, it was during peak of Hallyu propaganda. In fact, Japanese Yen has weakened now lol. And hallyu wave has been proven a fad. Low rating, low native Japanese who goes to kpop concert.(Do you know south korea allocate some of its expenditure to promote hallyu wave to the world? by what means? media and creating headlines lol.)

And 2012-2013 has ended the Hallyu wave which was forcefully brought to Japan through Fuji TV. The trend of
plastic surgery was rather a fad in Japan and China, but more like a lifestyle in South Korea.


Anyway, what is your true motive in asking these questions?

 

@mdo7
Firstly i'am feel what a wasting time to watched a thing like this
But maybe i'am want to spending my little time to ask you a question from a person with the perspective as a super maniac kpop fan with (hopefully) positive/enthusiasm thinking lol!!!
You said 48 group should enter korean with the korean culture inside it right??
But how about the protection from the korean government itself about the other culture??
Especially if those other culture is trying to penetrate the korean market??
And from what i read the korean itself has a destructive chauvinistic thinking about the other culture/nation right??
Maybe said the other language is like the animal language???
Maybe there is an idiom in my country like "You can hit someone BUT the others CANNOT hit you!!!
Or let me cleared like: any/every KPOP industry can entered the others countries music market BUT NONE CAN enter our (korean) market!!!

 

That's because surgery like this are expensive in Japan since a lot of thing are overpriced in Japan, so I have to assume the cost of plastic surgery in Japan got to be more expensive then in US or South Korea. So that's why PS is not super big in Japan like in South Korea. That's why I see and read something about Japanese women going to South Korea to get PS, it's really expensive in Japan to get PS. Also South Korea is a top medical tourism spot so a Japanese women (or even Chinese) can use the medical tourism premise to get PS. Japan is not exactly #1 on the medical tourism ranking (unlike South Korea).

 

He/She is only here to somehow "prove" that K-pop is better than Japanese idol music/AKB. Just look at his/her posting history, almost every post is on THIS thread, no posts on member threads, no posts on 48/46-group release threads, no posts on 48/46 group threads.

 

No I made a recent post about AKB48 should do a world tour. Also I'm not hating on J-pop or AKB48, but I really don't like it when Japan seems to prevent J-pop from getting global exposure, also you sound like a anti-Kpop fan just from some of your comment.

 

What foreigners see as overpriced in Japan is not an accurate representation of what actually might be overpriced. All you've posted there are foreigners' perceptions, from an outside viewpoint, about the Japanese economy. There's no research data or even firsthand knowledge from those who live in Japan and its economy there at all. You can make an assumption about medical practices being overpriced in Japan by looking at what foreigners think of the price of beauty products or delivery pizza, but if you tried to submit that in a paper to an academic they would just laugh and laugh and laugh. And then tell you to stop relying on blogs and secondary/tertiary sources for all of your points.

Here's a good source explaining why cosmetic surgery is so expensive in Japan, all you have to do is read the abstract: The Effect of Cost Suppression under Universal Health Insurance on the Allocation of Talent and the Development of Expertise: Cosmetic Surgery in Japan

Of course, cosmetic surgery is considered nonessential in nearly every economy, as beauty is not really considered a necessity for living. You won't die from being ugly (probably) so there's no reason for healthcare to cover it.

The negative stigma in Japan surrounding cosmetic surgery may have lessened somewhat in recent years. But in Korea it is still a far more commonplace thing. (Female) Korean entertainers are expected to undergo it, because they simply can't compete otherwise. But all you have to do is take one look at many popular Japanese musicians or entertainers to see with your very own eyes that it's just not as prevalent or necessary to succeed in the business.

 

Oh thanks for the link, didn't know about it. I just thought PS is not common in Japan because it's expensive and overpriced (like a lot of items are in Japan). I guess PS is not that expensive in Japan, but still it doesn't rule out that Japanese women are going to Korea to get PS. Maybe the reason why PS/cosmetic surgery in Japan is getting less negative stigma because of the Hallyu wave in Japan, I think maybe before the Korean Wave/Hallyu hit Japan, PS/cosmetic surgery is stigmatized in Japan, but when the popularity of K-pop and K-dramas in Japan reached it's peak (in other word, if your K-pop idols/K-celebs are getting or have gotten PS, then hallyu/K-pop fans in Japan will think it's cool to get PS).

 

I'm neutral on this since I like both.

Koreans are A LOT more tolerant of PS than most other Asian countries. Ask any Korean from the motherland, they'll tell you same thing. They place a very high emphasize on looks and height. Not saying most of the idols got surgery but it's not that taboo there. Of course just like Jpop idols claim they never had a boyfriend, Kpop girls claim they never did surgery. Only till some of them are older do they tell it like it is.

Japan has less emphasize on looks and height. Heck, even straight teeth not that emphasized.

In general, Kpop are a lot more trained and "perfected." They on average are better singers and dancers than their Jpop equivalent. Jpop are more about seeing their idols grow and improve. Also many of them don't get surgery because they too young.

Both are great, no need to look at the negatives. Enjoy each or ignore it if you not into it.

Back to question at hand, no, AKB48 should not try and expand into Korea. Korean idols already have a hard time making a profit due to massive downloading and very low physical album sales. Japan is the second largest music industry in world and have no need to waste their resources in a small market. Kpop expand because they have to in order to survive. Expanding also makes them more "Americanized" in order to appeal to a larger audience base.

 

Kind of sad people feel the need to bash k-pop here to prove a point. Also kind of weird to make fun of their singing voices since one of the things I like most about kpop compared to 48 is that they actually sound decent.


if the video does not show watch the video here
And no they shouldn't try. They'll gain nothing and lose a lot.

 

This might be kind of a dumb stretch, but Japan has had since very long ago this aesthetic of wabisabi, which is kind of hard to explain in English. But it encompasses an idea that there is beauty in imperfection. You can see it detailed in the Wikipedia article about it. As nature is imperfect, so do artisans try to capture that in their own work. People can find beauty and solace in things that do not look perfect.

I'm not saying this necessarily branches out to the media in Japan, or that it's even something on people's minds, but things like this tend to sneak in subconsciously. Aesthetic sensibilities do permeate cultures without us even realizing it.

 

I'm not for bashing Kpop artists, I actually used to like listening to Kpop a bit when I first discovered it. Some of them got it pretty rough too, although they may appear to be living high society with the fashion and concept sometimes. I do understand why people got defensive though, the last thing some of us want is to lose AKB or any other 48 group to the rest of the industry and lose that connection of what made them unique and also important to everyone in the first place.

All that needed to be said was that a Korean 48 group wouldn't be a 48 group if they weren't acting as a sister group and expanding on the unique culture of the entire family. This is why they wouldn't be a sister group, because they're separate and don't represent anything that the 48 brand is about, and would be doing their own thing that doesn't make them apart of everyone else. This is why nogizaka 46 doesn't have a 48 after them, because they're different, and are considered a 'rival group' in how they are related. Aki-P doesn't put the 48 label on everything he creates because he knows it stands for something.

 

Well maybe not a sister group, more like a "cousin group". But still I would love to see a K-pop 48g group in the future, I'm already seeing big boy groups like Super Junior, EXO, Topp Dogg. Girls Generation is currently the biggest girl group in term of members (Nine Muses, another K-pop group used to have 9 members before Eunji and Lee Sem graduated, now they're 7 members in there). There's also After School, a 8 members K-pop group with the graduation system (and the first in K-pop) found in a lot of J-pop girl group. But it would be amazing to see a big K-pop girl group with 48 (or more, to surpass AKB48) members.

 

It's not about the number of members, that's not what any of this means. Having a lot of members doesn't make you like AKB48, it's about what they do differently from other groups. They weren't even that big in the beginning, they only had one team and way less than the members they have now, so that was something that sort of grew over time.

The only way it would be acceptable from an expansion standpoint, would be if they didn't have a 48 at the end and were referred to as something else, although it could still be acknowledged as an AKi-P creation or whatever. nogizaka46 is a pretty good example to go by for what you're aiming for.

They could only carry the name if they were willing to respect what the family is about essentially, to participate in the traditions that hold it all together.

 

me too

These are actually the very few success examples of big groups in korea, there are a few others like a-peace back in 2011 with 20+ members ,co-ed with 10 and they were nowhere near succeeding. And After School have also been criticized for the graduation system. They see this as an "unstable" factor within the group and they hardly grew. And noticed how suju and gg split up into sub groups to promote after a period of time? And exo debuted as to 2 different groups?Large groups(>10) are hard to succeed in korea, unless like i said before you're part of the big3 in the korean entertainment business.

agreed.well said.

and the part about PS. Asians would know that Korea is like the Mecca for PS but of course nobody is saying no japanese go for ps and stuff like that. Of course there are tons of ppl in Japan that go for PS but the point is that ps is more common in korea.(higher ratio of surgeries/population)and likewise not all koreans do PS.but it is more accepted by the population as compared to other asian countries.and a high ratio of celebrity related individuals have surgery in korea. just a interesting photo from the past.how similar they are man.

Spoiler

 

Disregarding Super Junior Happy/T (they were essentially one shot units like Team Dragon, BKA48, OKL48, etc).. you do realise Super Junior M was created as a promotional tool for China, right? They brought in extra members [who speak Chinese] for it, it's nothing about the group being large/"unstable". Super Junior KRY is a vocal unit comprising of the best vocalists in the group and they mainly release ballads. And Donghae & Eunhyuk are basically their own duo, given their friendship/popularity as a pair.

As for SNSD and TTS.. I have no clue. I imagine they made TTS to make more money, as you know, it's how it is with these things.

EXO is a weird one. They might've debuted as "two units of the same group" but their best selling album is actually their album as a full group btw.

 

please do read again. my point on suju wasn't the unstable part.the unstable point was in reference to after school who changed a few members since their debut, in which they decided to call it a graduation system later as a way out. my point on these large groups breaking up into sub groups was that it was an example that large groups may not be as that attractive/viable as the TS thought it was in korea. if these successful groups have to break up into smaller groups to capture more attention/money or for whatever reasons, it means that it may not be that attractive/advisable to go in with larger groups anymore, unless like i said you are very strong fundementally.(big3)

and ya exo is an interesting rise in the recent years and i give SM the credit for that and their sales is indeed impressive, who knows they may be like AKB and be consecutive millions sellers in the future in korea. (barring the current issue of counting chinese album and korean album as one album or wad)

 

It's hilarious that you should mention reading comprehension when you've clearly failed to understand my post.

Quoting the OP, and now your reply:

How in hell do you explain the existence of Suju-KRY/Donghae & Eunhyuk? Or heck, any/all of the Suju subunits. Super Junior are EXTREMELY profitable (you can argue about their supposed popularity/lack thereof all you want, but they sell discs, and they sell A LOT of them). They get split up into units for MORE MONEY. Not because the original group is UNPROFITABLE. Spreading your members around GENERATES MORE MONEY. I imagine this is also why SKE, NMB, HKT, JKT, SNH all exist instead of trying to push AKB EVERYWHERE.

Instead of dragging all members of Suju (who mostly do not speak Chinese apart from one token Chinese guy) to China for a few months, why not just take a chunk of them, add two new members (who speak Chinese) and have the rest of the members do whatever in Korea? You do realise the members all do a lot of activities outside of the group? Kind of how like you see various chunks of AKB promoting stuff around Japan? Of course AKB is a heck of a lot larger so it's not as noticeable. Suju/Hallyu was/is profitable in China before the existence of SJ-M, SJ-M just capitalised on it.

Heck the existence of EXO kind of proves your weird little "suju didn't go to china as a full group because it possibly wouldn't be that profitable" theory wrong. Chinese EXO fans are INSANE (saying that from 1st hand experience btw), the ENTIRE GROUP (12 now 11 members, right?) is popular, not just EXO-M (aka the group CATERED to their market). I'd possibly go as far as arguing Chinese EXO fans severely outnumber their non-East Asian fanbase.

EXO will NEVER reach the levels of AKB. They are relying on the Chinese and Korean market, and the Korean music market is.. well.. awful. It's probably the main reason why Seoul48 ain't a thing, it's just not profitable in comparison to Japan, amongst things like the anti Japanese sentiment, how the graduation thing with After School is failing, and Girls' Generation OWNING and DOMINATING in terms of kpop girl groups. I love AKB but Seoul48.... as much as I want it to happen, it will fail, they're right to stay away for now.

 

I am quite sure Suju-KRY wasn't created for money in the first place but to capture more attention to the group through their vocals. KRY debuted in 2006 and suju just debuted at that time so there wasn't much $$$ to begin with .and likewise i don't really believe suju-h was created to create tons of money either since most of their activities were at variety shows at that point in time.

but yes like you said suju-m and Donghae & Eunhyuk were created to generate more money since they are both created around the time they are having the breakthrough in their career.

So technically you can say the group broke out into sub groups to 1.generate more money 2.capture more attention for their group.
Point 1 is what you pointed out in your post. But you cant deny the possibility of Point 2 as a reason. And if Point 2 is a reason, than that will be a cause for concern for companies who are trying to debut a large group with >10, or any form of group. Thus, it may not be that attractive/advisable to go in with larger groups anymore, unless you are a strong company like SM since its already very hard for new groups to compete against these established groups and you cant really generate more money by creating sub groups since there are already these big players in the field.

and likewise i don't really want a seoul48 since it will most probably fail in the current situation.

Well i don't know if you get my idea, my apologies if you didn't cause i'm not really good at explaining in words. tried my best to explain my point of view.

 

I just really don't think you understand why Super Junior has subunits, and you probably won't ever understand.

 

AKB48 going to Korea? that's a big "NO"!!!
if AKB48 go to Korea. AKB48 members need to adjust everything about them to compete to KPOP groups.
the concept of Japanese and Korean music industry is so freaking different especially in female idols.
KPOP is so westernized. while Japanese Idols have been going on for several years not to mention that the Japanese Idols concept originate really in Japan. while KPOP is trying so hard to be American Pop 90's.
and on Plastic Surgery. Japanese prefer real beauty than fake anyway. and besides they prefer cute girls.
in Japanese Idol Concept they look at how unique an idol are in terms of character, personality, talent and not just the looks. while in Korea every idols seems to want to have Plastic Surgery to fit in.

@Discothèque
I kinda agree and not since KPOP idols are trained for several years before debuting and that's where the perfection starts to be apply and Japanese Idols have different concept just like AKB48. in AKB they didn't have proper training. instead they have this "learning in the job" process where the Idols learn things gradually in work experience. so, that's why fans know their oshimen's weakness and strength and they can easily notice immediately if the idols improve their skill or not.