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2nd Gen Thread Official

Discussion in 'General Nogizaka46 Discussion' started by mayuri91, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. Generic_User

    Generic_User Under Girls Stage48 Donor

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    The Ikuta Erika
    We'll have to see how much or how little management cares for them in the next coming singles. If 2nd Gen can put some new faces into senbatsu that would signify that management still cares. I think if they go to 22 member senbatsu there may be room for Ayane or Miria/Rena. If they stick with 20 member senbatsu I think only one would make it in. Looking at Synchronicity's members, not one feels wrong to continue. Therefore it is just too tough to get in.

    But I hope they do, because then 4th Gen may take on added significance for Nogi future.
     
  2. Yuuki

    Yuuki Kenkyuusei

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    ^ It's 21 for Synchronity and with Ikoma gone, one of senbatsu mainstays at 3rd row will move back to 2nd row and it will open the slot for one of them to get in. Of course there could be some rotation from senbatsu and under ( from this senbatsu, I think the non mainstays are Higuchi,Ranze,Inoue and 3rd Gens... ) :confused:
    They are getting some momentum right now, so yes I'm also curious about how will the management cares for them or not. Hope they aren't giving up yet though with 3rd Gen integration and 4th Gen incoming, They have the potential... but you never know with this management :gavel:
     
  3. Adsz

    Adsz Kenkyuusei

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    I do not think miona fight for 2nd gens or something similar. When talking about 2nd gens, they only talk about miona, ace, captain, 2nd gens leader, and there is not much information about the other members :gavel:. Even at some nogidoko / koujichuu episodes, when introducing new members they also let miona attend, and that member is losing attention :asdfgh:. That is the mistake management did not repeat with the 3rd gens, and the result of 3rd gens was very good :glare:
     
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  4. Adsz

    Adsz Kenkyuusei

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    yeah, if you disagree, let me know your thoughts, maybe you will change my negativity with miona :rolleyes:. For me, 2nd gens is not bad, but let other members express their own points, find their own way and their own fans, not the shadow of miona :asdfgh:. But it was too late when the 3rd gens was too strong and the 4th gens will join the group in the near future :fp:
     
  5. Generic_User

    Generic_User Under Girls Stage48 Donor

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    I don't think I'm gonna convince you, but feeling negative against Miona is like being angry that the sun shines brighter than the moon and stars in the sky. Miona is the ace of second gen. She's got HS numbers to prove it, too. Nothing against the other 2nd gens. It's the hand they were dealt. They are doing well in their own way.

    Miona has actively promoted 2nd Gen. She did it twice on NogiChu when the show solicited the members for ideas. There was the 2nd Gen athletic promotion episode, and there was the time she wanted 2nd Gen birthdays to be celebrated too. That didn't make it into the show but they did it for the 2nd (?) 46 Hours TV.
     
  6. kanjo

    kanjo Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

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    On Miona, I think her presence has and continues to hold the 2nd gens back but it's not her fault.

    She definitely deserved to be the member with the most push and continues to be. She's one of Nogi's star members.
    But the gap between the attention she got and the attention given to other members was just too great.
    It was bad for Miona and bad for the other members (obviously).
    Could you imagine if Yamashita got all the promo for 2nd gens so far, was solo centre for the 18th single and stuck around with only one other 3rd gen getting a senbatsu position. All 3rd gens, including herself, would be worse off for it.

    I see the 3rd gens promotion and I can see direct influences from what went wrong with the 2nd gens and Miona in particular.
    And to reiterate, it was 100% a management blunder, not her own.
     
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  7. Yuuki

    Yuuki Kenkyuusei

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    This will be a long one and maybe I'm a bit biased but here we go:

    Well, Miona is the de facto Ace of 2nd Gen, management made a mistake with that mega push earlier on, which resulted in another 2nd gens not getting the attention they deserve, but hey it's not her fault and as mentioned before, she tried to pull the others.

    About the others being in Miona's shadow, part of it is true but if you're looking at hs sales, the others are doing pretty well lately and some sold out theirs albeit in fewer slots or sold out at later rounds, so the fans that actually found them is there, it's just management is not in their favor(like it or not, it's an up and down job and you have to steal some spotlight from the others if you want to succeed, it's just the reality)

    Management tried to do something different with 3rd gens introduction (their 1st center is a double and their 2nd inclusion they got 4 in senbatsu and fukujin to boot) and the result speak for themselves, maybe it's also related to Nogi's higher popularity than ever before and the hype for new gen after a long time but you never know...

    To be edited if another thought comes to mind :D
     
  8. NyanNyan's Pet

    NyanNyan's Pet Next Girls

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    There's already this big wall separating Miona from the other 2nd Gens. I'm not a Miona believer but I also can agree 100% it's not her fault for being in this position. With the coming graduation of Chi and Iori, I'm a bit worried. Hori is locked in Senbatsu until she graduate. I think the same with Sinuchi with the consecutive Senbatsu she got. If anyone will be added to Senbatsu I think same amount of members will be dropped back to UG. They need to balance the number, they can't just overcrowd Senbatsu. So who will be dropped and who's the likely Senbatsu candidate from 2nd Gen. I'm still optimistic for the next single Ayane will make Sanbatsu. But I'll be honest, I don't want it to happen at the expense of any of the 3rd Gen. I doubt they will drop any of the four. I could be wrong though, but they're just too strong and a total waste not utilize in Senbatsu. I also doubt it's gonna be a 1st Gen since Kanarin and Yuttan are already there with UG. That is where my worry comes. What is the likelihood of another 2nd Gen entering Senbatsu? These are just random thoughts in my head. I feel like there will only be minor tweak next single for both Senbatsu and UG.
     
  9. Adsz

    Adsz Kenkyuusei

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    I think it would be better if miona refused to lead or introduce 2nd gens o_O. They are idols, and to attract fans, they have to show something special to attract viewers and make fans happy. That is important, the member herself must create her own mark :gavel:. Currently hori is ace of 2nd gens, but it is due to the promotion of nogizaka, and because of this promotion, 2nd gens members are engulfed in hori's shadow :eek:. What would you think if ranze, junna, miria was chosen on the 7th singles instead of hori? If that happens, they will be ace 2nd gens :rolleyes: In the 3rd gens, managers let themselves grow, the same team, but each member still has its own points, and choose the outstanding ones to support, without any stupid mistakes like ace, leader or captain. The results probably do not need to say much :rolleyes: Anyway, arguing and knowing the opposite is quite fun, at least I know why they disagree with me, thanks for the discussion :)
     
  10. Yuuki

    Yuuki Kenkyuusei

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    Like I said before, if they're doing 21 senbatsu again, there's 1 slot available with Ikoma now gone so it's pretty open to everyone at UG...
    First, if they aren't getting any screen time when they enter, how will they create their mark? You pretty much has to get to know them through coming to HS yourself, watching Nogitens, submit to their mobames, etc
    To the second point, what if, the 'selected one' is someone else, will they end up like what we're seeing right now? We don't know. For me personally, I prefer not discussing about what if scenarios, things happened, management make bad decisions and others. That won't change anything now...

    The way they handle both gen is different, the hype with fans is different, the time they joined is different. On both ocassions, there's airdrop, but then 2 singles later, 3rd gen has 4 in fukujin compared to Kii get 3rd row at Kidzui, then Iori will join Miona at Inochi. And remember, there's Rena as kennin and fukujins haven't graduated yet(the slot available isn't that much). From the timeframe in which they joined, Nogi's popularity(in general public view) is on the rise starting maybe 2015-ish? So 3rd gens have much larger exposure about them...

    Agreed there, it's fun knowing many people perspectives, this is a nice topic to discuss and make this thread a little bit alive :D
    Would be nice hearing more opinions though...


    PS. If my words choice looks like I'm a little bit upset and angry, believe me, I'm not.It's just my vocabulary isn't that great
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  11. Adsz

    Adsz Kenkyuusei

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    It looks like you do not see all nogidoko / koujichuu or nogibingo? Most of them appeared, albeit a few, and did not use it to make themselves prominent. Some members are introduced as juna, miria, ... and fun instead when they are introduced by hori :fp:. Ayane and Kotoko have 1 or 2 episodes about them.
    On 3rd gens, not only because they were aired, but because the members were well chosen, they attracted attention right from the start and made the fans want to keep watching. mizuki - this girl takes advantage of the best close-up time, always smiles when framing :rolleyes:. Plus, I do not think nogizaka is just on TV, they have live, underlive in reality, that is a good opportunity for members to express themselves :shifty: I think a large number of asuka, himeka, marika and higuchi fans come from underlive, as they express themselves more specifically and prominently than other members :)
    On miona, her situation is quite similar to manatsu, but it is much worse because it affects the entire 2nd gens. I do not agree with some comments like mione fighting for 2nd gens, or trying to advertise them, because those actions only react, making them fuzzy. Do you really think fans will follow an idol that has to refer to another popular idol than introductory? They will only be the background for the other :shifty:
    To me, idol is just one piece of entertainment, it's not so important and I watch it when I like, give up when bored, and do not go crazy about them :flower:. Contradictions are controversial, and even if you get angry it is normal :flower:. Sorry for the long post, and if there is anything weird about grammar or meaning, please blame ggtrans :rofl:
    ah, i remember something more about miona. center single 7th, consecutive in senbatsu to single 11th. Falling under the next 2 singles but she is under center, still appearing on tv, on tour and under live, making under 1st gens + 2nd gens harder during this time. Then get back to senbatsu and continue to the top. With such an opportunity it is not difficult to understand when she is in the present position :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  12. Adsz

    Adsz Kenkyuusei

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    I think it's largely due to the manager's fault and still has a part of miona, for not refusing to become the 2nd gens leader o_O. As for mizuki, this girl will take advantage of that perfect opportunity to develop herself, which is evident through what she has been doing, really good and catching attention :rolleyes:. The members I noticed in 3rd gens are kubo + sato kaede, but mizuki is still paying attention when she comes out :^^;:
     
  13. Adsz

    Adsz Kenkyuusei

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    That's the part I don't like. Let the 2nd gens members or at least 4 - 5 prominent members introduce themselves and the group :rant:. They let hori do those things, and the only thing left is hori, not 2nd gens :fp:. The more enthusiastic hori performs, the more fans know her and the other members are only 2nd gens :fp:
    Yeah, now hori is like the sun of the 2nd gens, but at the beginning, hori is very normal, nothing outstanding :glare:. Repeat again, if the opportunity is given to kitano, ranze, juna, rena ... they can do so o_O
    sorry if i comment too much here and bother you :fear:
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  14. Yuuki

    Yuuki Kenkyuusei

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    Well, one I know from this is you did not like Miona, and while not to the extent of hate, blame her to always overpowering another 2nd gens presence with their introductions...

    Here is the thing, you did know that the segment that aired on that koujichuu( Hey, I did the sub for that athletic test they did at koujichuu) is planned by the staff, right? Do you think they just went "Hori-san, let's introduce your other gen members in the next few episodes" plan? The segment itself is flawed because of that and it's a closing segment( They change it into introduction by fukujin for 3rd Gen and 3 exclusive episode to boot).
    If you only watch those variety shows, well of course you wouldn't know about them. Variety shows focus on those good at variety, you won't learn anything deep from those. To make things worse, they have this chara set e.g Ayane as Nogizaka Cool Girl, - Koujichuu ep 81. where they have to stay true to that chara. She can talk a lot in underlive and HS, so why did she like that? That's because it's her chara on TV.

    Come to their HS, submit to mobames, watch SR's. You will know that they did their own way to promote themselves, not just someone who introduced by Hori. And to each and their own, have their own dedicated fanbases that you'll only see if you really going to live and HS, casual fans for sure will know more about member who have some chara about them, but if you're good at dance, have a great backstage presence, you won't get noticed much, right? It's all happenned not in front of TV

    About Miona, the management did put much pressure on her and she DID have some thought about quitting( Nogi documentary and AKB Show 114), so if you thought she had the easy route, well nope....
     
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  15. baymon

    baymon Next Girls

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    I don't understand why you expect her to refuse promoting or leading 2nd gen. In the first place, she was the only one favored by management. Her refusing to lead 2nd gen will not only do harm to herself but also to the rest of 2nd gens. If she doesn't do anything to promote 2nd gen, do you think management will do their job to promote the rest of the members...? I doubt so.
    Or are you saying she should reject management's attention on her so that the other members can get promoted?? Well, she's an idol, not a saint, there's nothing wrong with doing your best with the opportunities given to you, and that's what Miona did.
     
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  16. Adsz

    Adsz Kenkyuusei

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    i know nogizaka recently, i like all 1st gens and oshimen is minami. miona close to minami, and initially i like miona, ok? But when I got to know about 2nd gens, things changed, I did not like miona anymore, but did not hate her, just ignored her. What I did not like was the compliments to miona about what she did to the 2nd gens, while it was these things that hindered their development.
    I do not think she is easy, but compared to what the 1st gens have to do at the beginning, it's very normal, right in the nogizaka documentary that states the difficulties that the first generation must overcome.
    for variety shows, she is an idol but still a human, they - the manager or the staff, have the right to force the member to do something, but otherwise the member can refuse, they will find someone else to do or give up on that. Idols have some limitations, but that does not mean they are slaves
     
  17. Adsz

    Adsz Kenkyuusei

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    Why do I expect her to refuse to promote or lead the second generation? Because she is determined to help 2nd gens, expressed by both words and actions on the show, though then the opposite effect. So according to you, if hori did not promote them then the manager would abandon them? So what about kitano, ranze, shinuchi, and now ayane? They do not need help from manager and self-development? If she's taking advantage of herself and doing it well - as you say, it's not wrong, but if that's the case, stop saying things like help or wholeheartedly for 2nd gens.
    ah, I did not think of promoting and leading 2nd gens as the only opportunity that the manager gave to hori, that was just a small part of her opportunities when they chose her
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  18. Seditious46

    Seditious46 Next Girls

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    You can't blame Miona for any of the mistakes management made with the 2nd gen. And you can't blame her for being management's favorite. Things aren't that simple. There is no need to scapegoat the most popular 2nd gen for that.

    I believe popularity of a member is largely influenced by exposure. And they did that very well with 3rd gen. Make all the members participate in cool stuff and show it! Various interesting variety shows such as Nobinobi make you want to watch them and learn about the members. I wasn't around when the 2nd gen was introduced, but did they have the same kind of variety shows? Only thing I know is Nogiten, which I find to be really boring. As a result, I needed much more time to learn about the 2nd gen members, and even to this day, some of them are still kind of invisible for me.
     
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  19. CutePanda

    CutePanda Next Girls

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    i watched most of Nogiten season one and it was enjoyable. But Nogiten wasnt broadcast on national tv like Doko or Nogichu so their audiences were very limited.
    I wish they did a better job on promoting 2nd gen but they learned their lesson and did a decent job promoting 3rd gen recently.
     
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  20. Adsz

    Adsz Kenkyuusei

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    So it seems my comment is too long and you do not want to read it, or ggtrans makes sense there is something else. My first comment was to disagree with the compliments about miona fighting for 2nd gens, since that was what kept them away o_O. Her fans say their thoughts, I give my opinion, but the main content is that she tries to help the 2nd gens, and the more they faint o_O.
    As I said, it's a mistake that the manager does not repeat with the 3rd gens :rolleyes:
    Maybe stop here, when things have not lost control :flower:
     

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