1. Check the 2023 Stage48 Member Ranking Results, how did your Oshimen rank this year?

[BLOG48] translators' thread

Discussion in 'Announcements & News' started by loveandcoffee, Mar 20, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Chainangled

    Chainangled Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    I fall under the "not so active on the forums" crowd, but I do pop back in once a while; my S48 and Livejournal account names are the same.

    I am completely for thinking about how to improve Blog48, and I'll most likely agree to make any site moves or whatever. If I don't remember to check S48 and you guys need to contact me, you can send me a PM on Livejournal as I'm translating everyday. I also have a G+ account if you guys are having meetings there for translators.

    Also if anyone wants to translate the members I'm doing, I'm willing to trade or pick up new members.
     
  2. ithebigc

    ithebigc Stage48 Admin Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Location:
    Fukuoka, Japan
    Twitter:
    ithebigc
    So nobody can add anybody to the livejournal blog right now, right? I'm just going to start translating Milky's and Nana's blogs on a new Blogger then, just to gain some experience with how to use the software well if/when we do move Blog48. I'm probably going to translate the past entries that haven't been translated yet either, just so fans can see what they've said over the time they've been in NMB. This should be interesting...
     
  3. Tomokazu

    Tomokazu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Location:
    Yokohama, Kanagawa, Japan - Auckland, New Zealand
    Here's a wild-idea.

    We can use blogger, but to my knowledge a blogger requires you to have paid for a domain-name, and a server to host it on. I'm sure blogger could be ran on a VPN or a dedicated (whichever S48 is), the only problem is that we'd require a separate domain name for the blogger blog.

    I suggest wordpress, the reasoning behind that is because multiple people can post on one wordpress page (with different accounts of-course) and the wordpress server is very stable, and in my experience I've never experienced a server-side crash. The only problem with wordpress is that formatting can sometimes be a b**** as the line break doesn't work on the visual editor, thus you have to go into the HTML format and manually add a (double or) single line break. Other then that, it's basically like the old blog48 blog.

    Regarding translators, there should be a primary, and if available a secondary translator. The primary translator can no-longer lack in translations for more than 2 blog-posts without notice, or they get removed from that position, and gets replaced with another available translator. During this time, the secondary translator can translate the lacking-blog posts. (The point of a secondary translator is that he/she can-not be commited to translating every-single blog update, but is available)

    and there will be no filter-system as such, but you could have administrators who regularly check the translations to ensure there are no major-errors which could hinder the translation in any-way. (Note: The administrators do not have to translate a blog, but instead make-sure that the posts being inputted do not contain too many errors)

    If there are too many errors, then before 'kicking them out' of their position, you message them and inform them of their mistake, and it works on a 3-strike system, so on your 3rd strike, you're replaced. But, they're replaced only if their translations are so hindered that one can-not understand anything.

    To minimise the amount of non-proficient translators, one must go through a basic translation test, which is a random quote approximately 2-3 paragraphs long. This is to ensure that the same 'test' does not get used more than once, and can-contain anything as long as it includes Japanese. and of course, the administrators check the test and if it is up-to-standard, than they're given the OK.

    To become an administrator, one must under-go a basic reading, typing and oral test. To ensure that the administrator can proficiently speak/write/read Japanese enough to judge OTHERS on their translations. This is because any-one can use google translate to translate a blog-post and fix up computer-errors, but it requires a knowledge in the language to be able to speak Japanese.

    and if there are more than one translators who want to translate a blog, then there should be a 3-month-cycle, and every 3 months the primary translator changes. So that everyone gets their turn at contributing to the blog. Of course this cycle occurs with the secondary translator as well, but maybe not every 3 months.

    Once again, this is a random suggestion but something needs to happen. Blog48 is currently a translations-dump-forum, which isn't moderated, nor checked to ensure quality of work. and more and more people are posting translations on their own blog as they can't gain access to blog48, this then makes it a living-nightmare for people who genuinely want to understand different members blogs.

    I mean, put it this way Sayanee's blog hasn't been updated since... god knows. :/

    I've got a few spare days up my sleeve, If anyone needs help getting a certain idea started up, then I can definitely help.
     
  4. memorybreak

    memorybreak Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    such an interesting idea, the thing is... would you be that primary person who will translate those blogs and such media?
     
  5. Tomokazu

    Tomokazu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Location:
    Yokohama, Kanagawa, Japan - Auckland, New Zealand
    I'd definitely be happy to set something up and take charge, of course translating ALL the blogs will be impossible, and I wouldn't have enough time, but one or two persons I could translate.

    That said, the translations thing was hopefully a user-input system, where people would take charge of certain girls and translate.
     
  6. memorybreak

    memorybreak Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    How are you going to be able to find a dedicated staff to "meet" your expectations?

    I'm sure you know that everyone has more important things to do than translating blogs and such. Personally, and I'm sure a lot of the current translators out there would agree, I would only do it because I want to and not be bounded by some unrealistic rules and expectation that are placed on me. Plus it's not like these translators are getting paid to do it nor are bound by a contract so that they have to follow it.

    Ball in your court mate.
     
  7. Tomokazu

    Tomokazu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Location:
    Yokohama, Kanagawa, Japan - Auckland, New Zealand
    I'm not going to get in an argument about an idea, 'mate'

    If one is going to provide a language-service for someone else who has no knowledge in the chosen language, then you want it to be correct. Is it too much to ask for people to understand a proficient amount of Japanese before they start translating? I ain't asking them to translate whilst riding a pogo stick eating a pizza.

    But really, if that's your take on how important teaching correct Japanese is, then you shouldn't even be translating at all, before you influence other people with hindered incorrect Japanese. I don't mean it as a negative statement, but I can't stress how influential translations can be, and how are THEY going to know that it's incorrect? After all, you're translating for an audience who can't read the individual members Japanese blogs.

    So please, I beg you, to either value correct use of language more or stop offering your translations as a public service (assuming you are)
     
  8. memorybreak

    memorybreak Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Not trying to get into an argument, just providing some constructive criticism, so calm down eh?

    What will be the benefit for following such a rule? Is there a reward system? How about if there's only one translator for multiple blogs and doesn't have that Secondary Translator and is backlogged? What now? Do you just boot them?


    So who will test the tester? How can you ensure the person providing the proficiency test is well versed in Japanese? Would they be tested as well?

    It's great that you are trying to take initiative with this, and yes i know that it's an idea, but you have to make it a bit more reasonable and appealing for those who will be doing the translations. I'm sure you have lots time to cook up some more ideas or even flesh this out a bit more.
     
  9. Tomokazu

    Tomokazu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Location:
    Yokohama, Kanagawa, Japan - Auckland, New Zealand
    I've already answered most of your questions, but I'll go over it again.

    The benefit of following such a system, is that with popular members there will always be a guarantee of having a blog translated, and not be back-logged without notice. and if there isn't a secondary translator, then that's that. We're just going to have to make the best out of what we've got. The whole point of this sytem is so that, say Oshima Yuko's blog translations have been lacking in 3-4 posts, and there's no sign of the translator, well then we can guarantee that soon-enough, the lacking posts will be translated. But, this is the worst-case-scenario, I'm sure many if not all the translators will be dedicated.

    Well, if you can hold a Japanese conversation and not get lost, then you're pretty much good to go. Now when I say "conversation" I don't mean "Good evening Mr x, My name is xy and it's a pleasure to meet you" kind of stuff, I just mean a regular conversation. Oh and believe me, We've got lots of kids at our school who's reading and writing is exceptional, but they can't hold a simple conversation for more than 1 minute without getting lost. It takes quite an extensive knowledge of the language to be able to hold a conversation.

    You could just talk over Skype to HRP, or any Japanese speakers in this forum. It shouldn't be too hard to get yourself approved if you know a proficient amount of Japanese.

    I don't really understand what's not reasonable. I mean, if you can read/write Japanese, then you're good to go, and if you're lacking in translation then we'll just let someone else translate who's more commited. Or am I asking too much for people to be able to read/write Japanese? :lol:
     
  10. gideon123

    gideon123 Kenkyuusei Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Location:
    New York, USA
    At quick glance, I think I'd be booted from translating Yuko's blogs because 1.) the only place I say that I'm not translating a post is here at the forum (which won't be much help to the people who don't go to the Yuko thread) and 2.) I'd probably fail whatever Japanese proficiency exam you'd be implementing (I essentially don't speak Japanese where I live, and my vocabulary is still rather limited).

    But hey...if I don't meet what standards you'll be imposing, then I guess I'm done. *shrugs*
     
  11. Tomokazu

    Tomokazu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Location:
    Yokohama, Kanagawa, Japan - Auckland, New Zealand
    No, no. To be approved as a translator, you just need to be able to translate a random text segment. and considering that you're already translating Yuko's blog posts, I'm sure you're proficient enough at being a translator.

    The "oral" and thorough examination would only be for administrators, as they'd be approving the translators and making judgements of others' Japanese.
     
  12. gideon123

    gideon123 Kenkyuusei Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Location:
    New York, USA
    Wait...so how's admin going to make judgments on translations? Are they going to look at every single post? Or just check 'em at random?
     
  13. Tomokazu

    Tomokazu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Location:
    Yokohama, Kanagawa, Japan - Auckland, New Zealand
    ^ Check em' at random. There shouldn't be too many errors as the translators were approved by the administrators after all.

    It shouldn't take too long to take a quick glance at a blog post and make a judgement on whether their translations are crap. and if they are, the 3-strike system kicks-in.
     
  14. ET920

    ET920 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2010
    Location:
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    I am not sure how many active translators are working right now in this project, but if you apply the ideas you are talking about, you would lose a few. You are putting too much pressure in this main translator you are talking about that in fact it doesn't sound as a privilege position but instead some punishment.

    The advantage of blog entries is that anyone can help, just using Google Translate on it and rewording the sentences to make them flow naturally. It is possible that someone with Japanese knowledge would be able to correct it, but if someone was translating using Google Translation, it meant that there was no active translator available for the blog, so it is better to have a reworded machine-translated entry than having no entry at all.

    I think that would be the best course. With a wiki it would be possible for anyone to fix entries, but as long as you encourage people to comment on how to make the entry better, it should be fine.
     
  15. Gingerninja

    Gingerninja Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Location:
    England
    Oshimen:
    kondorina
    The fact is, most of the blogs are throwaway entries full of nothing.
    You could almost copy paste;

    and that would cover most of the blogs for weeks at a time.

    They are not really high priority things. If you punish people for missing a couple days here and there, then soon no one will want to translate anything and it'll end up even more abandoned.
    The people who speak Japanese well enough to translate the blogs, probably don't want to because they're fairly boring and inconsequential. The one comment of thanks every 3 months on livejournal wasn't exactly motivating to keep it up either.

    And also as this is a fan run thing, and no one is getting paid and your short on hands to begin with. Until you produce an MA in translation or a qualification from an accredited Translation Union, you're not in a position to start telling people what they can and can't do.

    Most of the members if you moved their main translator, no one would take over. People want to translate members they like, sure some people will fight over the more popular members, but I'd argue there is less of a need for their blogs to be translated anyway as there is plenty of material for them about the internet.
    I'd say the claim system we have in place is fine, if a blog is inactive for 2 weeks then look for another translator to fill the spot. If you start warning after 2 days, people will immediately stop caring, it's not a job and you can't expect the level of professionalism that comes with a job.

    Its good to see enthusiasm, but you can't go from no system to a system ruled like like that. There needs to be an in between to build the community around the translations and have people wanting to do them and most importantly share them, before you can start demanding more of the people who give there time to do this and get absolutely nothing back in return.
     
  16. Tomokazu

    Tomokazu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Location:
    Yokohama, Kanagawa, Japan - Auckland, New Zealand
    ^ I don't really mind, it's just something needs to happen. The translations are just dying down, and everything is disorganized.
     
  17. ithebigc

    ithebigc Stage48 Admin Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Location:
    Fukuoka, Japan
    Twitter:
    ithebigc
    People have already stated what need to be stated, but I basically agree with memorybreak, gideon123, ET920, and Gingherninja. I haven't started yet, but once I do, I know for sure there'll be days where I can't get to a blog entry within 2 days. Everyone's doing this out of their own heart, I assume; my main reason for wanting to help translate Milky's and Nana's blogs is because I want these girls to become even more well known, I want people to have the chance to see their appeal just as I have. That being said though, the effect of these blogs are limited, so no way will these be my top priority when I have other things to do, such as making sure my GPA is high enough that I can study abroad so I can actually see the girls. And along the way, if there's something I can't understand, I can ask the myriad of Japanese people I know and I'll be learning too.

    You adding all these rules and regulations to translation seems more like a chore than something we do for fun and our own enjoyment. I'm also assuming (but it's most likely true) that people who have volunteered to translate blogs know enough Japanese to be able to translate them proficiently, at least getting the main points across if not the exact wording. Unless their own estimation of their abilities was way too high, I don't see the point of "translation tests" and like ET920 said, would most likely keep people away when we already have limited translators.

    As far as Blogger vs Wordpress; I'm pretty sure we don't need to pay for anything on blogger; I don't know what features we're looking for, but most should be free. If we just want something.blogspot.com, that is free. (btw, blog48.blogspot.com is a no go, we'll need to think of a new name since someone in 2003 took that name and I can't contact him) If we want a domain name like blog48.com, that's $10 annually, which is a pittance. Multiple people can post on the same page too with different accounts, you just have to add them as authors to the site. And of course Blogger is stable, it's run by Google -__- If anything, I'd argue it's more stable than Wordpress. Also, formatting is very simple, last I used it in...2009. If it was simple then, I can only assume they made improvements to it.
     
  18. Tomokazu

    Tomokazu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Location:
    Yokohama, Kanagawa, Japan - Auckland, New Zealand
    ^ Alright pal, since you've got everything sorted it seems, please go ahead and do something instead of people jumbling the translations onto a million different blogs. YOU get it sorted since everything that had to be stated needed to be stated.

    Either way, I just want a place where people can collectively add their blogs which makes it easier for other people to follow.
     
  19. HoneyRoastedPeanuts

    HoneyRoastedPeanuts Kenkyuusei Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Location:
    Shizuoka, Japan
    Twitter:
    hrp919
    Now now. Let's not get personal. The people involved are aware that some change is necessary and it's bound to happen in time. I'm contacting the currently active translators as well as others that I know are able. To find a whole pool of people enthusiastic enough and to get everyone in one place is priority right now. We're not quite there yet. The fanciest blog and clearest set of rules won't make any waves when there's no one around.
    Once we know more about what we actually can offer we can move on to the technicalities.
     
  20. ithebigc

    ithebigc Stage48 Admin Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Location:
    Fukuoka, Japan
    Twitter:
    ithebigc
    I'm free for about half a week starting from Wednesday night, so I'd be more than happy to do something about it then.

    HoneyRoastedPeanuts, how's the contact with the other translators going? At the very least, I'd like to register a name on Blogger, but since blog48 is taken, we'd need to decide on one for now. We can always change later too. Or....if we really want it, I can buy the blog48.com domain name and have it redirect to Blogger, probably.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page