Do you think there are cases of bullying within the group?

Wery difficult to find truths, but, I think that some of them are in past bullied and or are bully. But, also, what is truth at Majisuka Gakuen?

And someone's mentioned that them can't seem M Rena at bully. If you ask me, I think same.

 

on AKBingo ? wasn't that the same for Takamina ????
alot of AKBingo episodes in the past turned into a Takamina festival ! when members wouldn't stop Joking about her and such
but most of these members are her friends like Mariko for example
so you really don't know if it's bullying or not

 

I agree. They tease Takamina a lot on shoujiki shougi, but she always plays along with it. They should have been more sensitive to Sayaka.

 

I am sure that kind 'bullying' was just meant for comedy. like how sayaka was often called gorilla or minami often being mistaken as a guy and shaving her mustache.

I didn't check previous pages but, I am really sure there is "some" bullying inside the group, even the smaller thing such as bad mouthing behind that girl. it is a group of young girl afterall. and jealousy is natural for girl on their age. jealousy of push perhaps?

 

But the Takamina teasing was really tame, I still can't watch that Sayaka vs. Tomochin episode again because it makes me rage. Sayaka had made it clear that she really hated to be called "gorilla" in blog posts and other TV shows, and she was previously bullied in school because she's half filipino, for Tomochin to go in on her with that and then everyone sort of following through even though Sayaka was clearly bothered by it and affected so much that she cried, it was really gross.

Also, it's really annoying me in this thread that people are being all "Of course, they are girls, so they must be catty and bullies and jealous" come on. Guys are just as capable of bullying people as girls are, it's ridiculous to pretend that bullying is only a girl on girl problem.

 

Girl or not, bullying was act at criminals. And should tell to mangament and police.

Anyway, ewery country has own law, but bullying not allowed.

 

I wouldn't say the comedic bullying is something the girls are okay with, I mean for comedic reasons many team 4 girls apparently joke about Shinozaki Ayana on the theater performance, but she did once address it saying she didn't want to become the character all the girls make fun of even when she's serious. Who's to say that Sayaka or Takahashi were fine with being teased during by all the members.

 

I rewatched some AKBINGO episodes from 2013 earlier and it seems like none of the girls like Izurina? They tease her and imply that she's ugly and stuff. I know she hasn't got a strong fanbase but that's a bit harsh.

 

Truth is, at that level, you're going to be bullied. Geinokai + top idol + Japanese reticence towards bullying = bullied. In that respect, Japan is far behind the West. Or is it?

Maintaining the caveat 'at that level'... if you can't take bullying in the entertainment industry, you'll be seen as weak or at the very least, sensitive. Remember that your audience, right or wrong, is a mass that has to eat shirt sandwiches everyday, just in order just to be a normal person... so when they see entertainers on TV, with all that glamour and exposure and privilege, can't take a little hazing... it only turns them off to you, or so the reasoning goes.

I was moved by the stories on Boku Ga Kagaeru Yoru, and felt for the victims, esp those that contemplate suicide to escape the thought of suffering daily, indefinitely. But if you look at it from another perspective... hazing is like an acid test to determine who deserves to thrive in society. I'm not saying I agree with this... in fact, I think out of the 23K+ people that chose jisatsu in Japan last year (stop and consider that number for a moment... an entire stadium-full of people, every year), society lost untold advantages they could've contributed had they lived and changed the future.

'At that level'... if you don't gain the skills to have a thick skin in Japan, you'll not thrive and no one will accept you, rather make your life hard (though the rise of Paruru artificially through Aki-P may signal a sea change in this). The only way to survive is to throw away any and all thoughts of victimhood, and turn things around with your own efforts (Miichan had said so on AKBingo once IIRC). A. Sayaka is one of my top graduated oshi, but she has flaws... one of them being a bit too sensitive for the industry.

My stance is not to defend bullying -- I think it's repugnant, esp at the student level, to clique and shut out someone because they have a weakness. But Tsuchida-san said of his own bullying exp on Kagaeru Yoru, that it made him into the successful man he is today, and I for one agree with him. Same with Takamina -- I was moved to tears learning of the burden she assumed when promoted to soukantoku... she had no choice but to handle its huge burdens with grace, and if not learn how, full stop. She faced all of her challenges in exactly the opposite way as Paruru -- head-on (perhaps that is why I dislike her progress so viscerally -- her chaperoning past all the gates to success while all others have to make lemonade, seems very wrong). Ironically, Paruru is probably a challenge to Takamina's sensibilities... a grain of salt.

My experiences in the military are exactly the same in microcosm as this situation -- you're expected to perform for the good of the group, develop strong teamwork and disassociate with feelings of individual priority or selfishness. Those that can't take a bit of hazing to correct that, won't make it long in the military (I was called racial and ethnic slurs constantly in 23 weeks of training -- there's no escaping it). So the question you have to ask yourself is this -- are you going to let it bother you and hinder you, or not? Those that integrate it with humor, bond and the group accepts them. Those that assume a victimhood, get ostracized and their lives in training get harder -- I know, I went through it and saw both outcomes. Same thing with any school sports teams -- do you really think anyone will become a better player or better person, if the conditions let them do whatever they want? Probably not. I say this meaning the receivers of bullying, not the bulliers. But they're essential to this system, so all I can hope is that they one day meet a bigger bully... and develop some character after all.

Not being a Japanese citizen but a JA, I can't comment directly on exp with bullying there, but my family can. They also are adamant that society correct those that do not have enough discipline to conform to social standards, and failure to do so should have repercussions. This to me, is okay as long as it's to serve a higher purpose for the good of society, not to vent negative, immature emotions on the helpless. Unfortunately it's often impossible to separate one from the other. I don't personally think bullies get very far in a group that has to be as cohesive and enjoys as much exposure as 48GP though... peer pressure has diminishing returns if not used skillfully.

 

YES. Especially to that last part. The idea that girls are somehow meaner and more likely to be bullies is just BS that breeds sexist thoughts.

In my school experience, guys are just as likely as girls to bully and be bullied. In my AP Lit class last year, this boy was bullied constantly in the last month or so of the year after it was discovered that he cheated on an in-class essay. By both guys and girls and people that were friendly to him before. It appalled me and I really regret not standing up for him and telling people to knock it off.

Some members of EXO make fun of Kai for his skin color--I think he laughs it off now (and has said that he likes his tan skin) but I think it hurt him at least in the beginning.

Bullying is bound to happen in a group this big, but not because they are girls.

I remember someone once pointing out Nacchi and another girl shoving a member (can't remember who) during a concert once. There is sure to be some nasty stuff going on in a group this size but unless something can be confirmed I don't think it's worth it to worry about it... Sometimes you just don't get along with people, regardless of whether there is bullying or not. And sometimes joking around about a member really is a harmless joke, and if it's not then the member could have apologized backstage or something. I don't think it's worth jumping to conclusions in most cases.

 

Things that are in AKBingo/TV Shows is variety gone too far. The girls probably think that they are teasing them, but at the same time the only know who knows whether it is gone too far or not is the girl being teased. I do recalled watching an episode somewhere that the girls apologize back stage, saying things like "Sorry, that was too harsh."?

I think badmouthing might happen inside the group, they are a bunch of girls in their puberty age. You know, the usual teenage drama. Isn't Miichan got into a little fight with Acchan back when Acchan is given the center position of Nagisa no Cherry?

Also in Nogibingo, Nishino Nanase openly said that she hated Nogibingo/the show because she doesn't want to fight with/say bad things to her friends.

 

The Nogi girls seem to be closer with each other than AKB members. I also think that is possible because they have fewer members and a more stable structure in the group. But also, since they are closer, sometimes it makes it hard to reproduce the AKBINGO format. I remember the episode where Sayuringo went up against Kazumin in shoujiki shougi and inadvertedly completely destroyed her with a question that imo wasn't all that malicious. Everyone was so uncomfortable after Kazumin started crying, even Ijirii tried to comfort her, and Sayurin was kind of mortified that she even brought the topic of Kazumin's voice up at all. Very different from the reckless AKBINGO.

Basically, I think that not being very close to each other and seeing each other just as work partners makes for better variety for AKB because they are not afraid of saying rude things in that context, and it makes them more entertaining for it. Nogi has other charms and stregths of course.

 

^ *Nanamin, not Sayurin. And yes, after that accident no one ever make fun of/talk about her unnatural voice ever again

 

^Was it Nanamin? Sorry I forgot. I only remembered Kazumi crying and Sayurin being teased because of her big butt in that episode. I stand corrected.

 

Ikuta Erika also doesn't like the variety shows. They even made her sing about it.

And Kazumin cried because the claim was that she was faking her voice and she failed the lie detector.



Surprised she cried though because I believe on Nogidoko, she said she uses a different voice when she's back at home/school/etc.

Was an interesting segment though. Kazumin was sulking the entire time even though she won.



Wasn't really bullying though. I think Nanamin probably didn't expect her to fail the question.

 

Maybe it's this kind of thing is why I've never really been able to get into Nogi, to me they're kind of staid and dull.

See this illustrates the difference between the 48's and 46, Yamada Nana got relentlessly teased about her voice but made it a positive part of who she is. Same with Haruppi and her fumbling of words, if you embrace your weaknesses then you don't get destroyed by them.

The fact that Nogi girls are generally quieter than AKB girls may just mean that instead of outright arguments and clashes that there's more under-the-radar passive-aggressive bitchiness behind the scenes.

I sometimes wonder how Nogi girls would deal with having to perform stages for a month or two like AKB girls, I think it would liven them up. But then perhaps Nogi-only fans like them not to be as lively as AKB girls.

 

I remember seeing this gif before. The girl pushed doesn't seem to be"ready" to be pushed and Miki (? not really sure xD) really does seems shocked.

 

Hit the nail on the head. No one can harm you if you don't let them. It sucks to be the receiver of hazing but in the end, it's what you do with it that determines where and how far you go in life. On the other hand... Nana may've taken her chara into consideration when deciding to graduate... if it was the end of her development in NMB, then the decision must've been easy. I like that she'd been able to participate in NMB variety shows *after* she graduated, so management still likes her very much -- graduating from H!P say, you turn in all your keys when you leave.

The pullback of exchange between the groups sort of confirms my suspicions that they target a different demographic. Nogi is an alternate way to explore pulling in fans the AKB formula doesn't serve well, so while there may be different dynamics behind the scenes, I'm sure there's still tension and BS -- they're human, after all. But the pressure isn't as high.

It'd dilute their appeal, for sure -- but at the same time that same pressure to perform is what builds the AKB girls quickly into successful after-AKB employees and geinin... so there is give and take. I think Ikoma and a couple others would do fine in the AKB schedule.

 

I can't see the gif but I'm guessing it's the Kiichan one from when they were doing the pajama drive stage? The push is part of the choreography and Mogi (the pusher) did nothing wrong, it's just that as you said, Kiichan wasn't ready for the push, Kiichan's situational awareness just wasn't very good.

I posted a clip of how the choreography is supposed to go way back when it happened so as to show people who aren't familiar with this stage how it's meant to happen


if the video does not show watch the video here

 

Just looking at Nogizaka's uniform (long skirt and such) is enough to tell someone that they are going for the 'noble and more proper' image.
There's some Nogizaka tte doko? episode where the undergirls openly talks about what they feel, like having an week free of job and then spend her time watching TV dramas.

There is one time when Akimoto Manatsu got back from her break, and then suddenly pushed and become one of the Fukujins for Nogizaka's 4th single. This surprises everyone. The undergirls talked about how frustrating it is, since they always tried to get into the Senbatsu and then Manatsu suddenly received the Fukujin title (But everyone understand that it's not Manatsu's fault)
Nanase was so shocked (Because Manatsu kicked her out of the Fukujin position) that she didn't talk to Manatsu until about one year later