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[General] The AKB48 Team SH Thread

Discussion in 'General Team SH Discussion' started by Kappa, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. mochichan

    mochichan Kenkyuusei

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    Bc Chinese ent. market is much bigger than Taiwan....But China's ent. market is in film, not in music tho. Chinese companies have been buying Hollywood studios, and Hollywood is also trying to cater to China with random Chinese actors in recent movies....so idk what AKB plan is to promote there.....
     
  2. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Next Girls

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    if the video does not show watch the video here

    Cut from a recent episode of "Chuunichi Shinshikai" (full version here), which if I understood correctly is a Chinese TV program in Japanese language about Japanese culture.
    They touched upon the announcement that AKB proper will be expanding their activities into the Chinese market this year, coupled with some interviews with the fans who came to the event.
    More interestingly, they also covered the rise of Japanese-style idol groups in China and brought up some as an example (not just SNH, but also ATF, Idol School and Lunar. I particularly like how the last one hopes to expand into Japan thanks to their one Japanese member). Some of their managements were interviewed and expressed their opinion on AKB breaking into China, all in all it seems that the general sentiment is "the more competition the better".
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  3. Ashitaba

    Ashitaba Upcoming Girls

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    More competition naturally raises the standards so more idol-like groups in mainland China is actually really good :D
     
  4. kirashogun

    kirashogun Kenkyuusei

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    Long time lurker, thought I would provide everyone on the outside some insights into the whole SNH48/AKB48 split.

    Legality of the Breakup
    SNH48分室 (Japanese only) have analysed the relationship between AKB48 and SNH48 extensively and it would appear that AKS does not have a single cent of direct capital invested in SNH48. A separate Hong Kong entity called Asia Star 48 (HK) which is purely a licensing/royalty management company was set up and one of the 3 major stakeholders is AKS. It has no direct ties to SNH48. In light of this information, it would appear to give more weight to SNH48/Star48 side of the story of independent operation.

    AKS can't have it's cake and eat it too, if they want more control, pony up the cash basically. What SNH48 did is certainly legal but I'll leave the ethics up to the individual to decide.

    AKS
    No doubt the biggest loser of this breakup is AKS. The problem lies in AKS ambition for their overseas sister group. Looking at how JKT today, early days of SNH and AKB-China is managed, it is quite obvious the aim of the sister groups is to tap into the niche Wota overseas market for AKB48 IP and culture. Same kawaii style, same songs, same dance, just translated. In someways, the sister groups are just cheap knock offs of the real deal. If you are an AKB48 fan, if you don't speak Chinese or Indonesian, there is zero incentives for you to even look at these sister groups.

    This goal that makes sense for AKS, but for SNH, AKS is completely blind to the opportunities that is unfolding in real-time in China.

    SNH
    China's economic growth in recent years have meant a massive swell of middle class looking to burn some cash. The pop industry in mainland have been virtually non-existent until very recently, where import from HK/TW/JP/KOR have been mainstream. This is mainly due to difficulties in monetisation due to piracy.

    AKS brings in a business model that solves the monetisation problem and with middle class booming, this has created a vacuum in the pop/idol market. SNH management saw this opportunity and they know in order to succeed, they MUST establish first mover advantage as there is plenty of competition (Idol school, ATF, Lunar, 1931, the list is endless) and they MUST go mainstream. The 48G branding recognition across China is still very low so really 48, 46 or 65000, it doesn't really matter, you just need to get your self out there. Losing the 48G halo really doesn't mean much in the bigger scheme of things.

    Another problem is the hand me down songs AKS is providing, basically they don't have mass appeal in the Chinese market. Kawaii is very much subculture in China and not mainstream like it is in Japan so SNH had to go with original everything if it is to have any chance and localise to Chinese tastes.

    It's not just SNH that recognises this once in a life time opportunity, clearly new media in China recognises this and are investing massive amount of money and it shows in SNH's quality of production, stage and scale of events etc.

    The rise of SNH is actually a rise of Chinese pop music culture. At last, some serious money is being invested and it is a very exciting time to see idol culture blossom.

    What about the SNH girls?
    A lot of SNH wota's think the SNH girls will be devastated but really, although the majority of SNH girls are fujoshi themselves to an certain extent, at the end of the day, they are at SNH to be idols. They may lose the Japanese connection but a stronger SNH is ultimately better for their careers and with the votes in the last Sousenkyo experiencing triple digit growth, a mainstream SNH will mean much more to SNH girls than some lose link with Japan.

    This is actually obvious when one of the SNH girls was super excited that their group was able to appear on a CCTV prime time show. A major boost for SNH publicity.

    What AKS should have done
    Well AKB48-China is one big sorry mess. You can't try the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. AKS should recognise the opportunities and ambitions of SNH and step aside and hang on to the tailwind of SNH and get AKB along to the ride.

    Instead, they let their arrogance and narrow ambitions get in the way and cut ties off completely. The problem is, China is the bigger market, SNH is on the rise in an exploding market, AKB is in a mature market and if Google trend is to be believed, they are circling the drain. The move to cut SNH off is really hara-kiri on oneself, it does not hurt SNH one bit, if anything, it strengthens them as they don't have to deal with Sino-Japanese politics anymore (messy at best of times).

    A Invitation for AKB48 Wotas
    Here is an open invitation all the AKB fans to join us at the SNH48 lounge. SNH is it's own unique group with unique songs, dance and IP with a backlog of AKB48 song library as a bonus! There is plenty of money to be thrown around for a good time, the events are going to get more ridiculous, the quality of the talents are very high, the composers and artists they are signing up are 1st tier, it's not just another AKB me-too performance! Best of all, they are not IP Nazies, songs/mv are freely downloadable and all theatre performances are available for free.

    See you on the other side :).
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
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  5. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    ^ If i could like it, i'd like it. Nice post
     
  6. superficialfan

    superficialfan Kenkyuusei

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    ^It was an entertaining summary, but really biased towards SNH. The reality is legal is not the same as classy, what SNH48 did looks trashy either way.

    If the 48 brand is that meaningless, then they should also change their name too. The reality is both groups are to blame; AKS for being naïve and outdated in their ambitions, and SNH for validating their critics about the instability of that region with respect to copyrights and contracts.
     
  7. kirashogun

    kirashogun Kenkyuusei

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    Unless you have the contract, you can't categorically say anything about copyright and contracts as none of us know what sort of contract was drawn up. AKB wota will naturally take AKS side of the story at face value but doesn't mean it is true.

    As for trashy, this is a complete value judgement. You can easily argue how AKS treat all its overseas sister groups is trashy and reeks a bit of colonialism.
     
  8. superficialfan

    superficialfan Kenkyuusei

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    It does look bad, sorry. It doesn't matter if some legal scholar somewhere can beat AKS on a technicality.

    I'm not one of those fans that thinks AKB48 makes great music either, so no excuses about me being a wota. I don't care about the other sister groups, what SNH did was unsavory. Common sense would tell you SNH48 is full of it, they should just change their name and move on. I get it, they wanted money and they wanted to copy some parts about AKB48, whatever, just keep it real with your fans. Instead, we get everything the critics of that region feared.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  9. kirashogun

    kirashogun Kenkyuusei

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    Well you can't accuse SNH of copying the business model and songs, that would be like accusing Shanghai Disneyland for copying Mickey Mouse.

    Not to mention it is AKS that made the ruckus. In fact, after AKS officially broke up, SNH's popularity skyrocketed. Some say there is some kind of conspiracy going on.

    Continuation of 48 brand is actually mutually beneficial. SNH don't have to do a brand reset and the 48 brand actually gets a mainstream audience in China. Financially and in terms of popularity, SNH is already much bigger than AKS, and that trend is set to continue. Objectively looking at the scale of events, the talents, the production value of MVs, SNH isn't even playing the same ball game as AKS.

    I remember when SNH Manatsu no Sounds good came out, it got a huge reaction from Japan purely due to the quality of the girls and the MV itself. It was a unanimous AKB defeat (their words, not mine).

    But really the point I want to make is, this is a win for overseas AKB Wota. None of you really paid any attention to SNH anyway since it was just another me too AKB. As someone on this forum said, how many versions of KFC do we need.

    Well now you have an REAL alternative. All original, different style, high production value, and you can meet them (if you actually manage to reserve the tickets before they sell out).

    I will tell you who is really bitter. The Chinese 48G Wotas. It was a REAL loss for them but they are the overwhelming minority. In fact AKB China only has 35k followers compared to 4m+ of SNH. However, even they support SNH's move to go mainstream and now they get an all original AKB48 theatre after ALL that drama, it just shows you the economic pull of the Chinese market.

    One last thing, using the 48 name is the easy part, I will tell you what's the hard part, coming up with EP after EP of high quality original songs and theatre productions, flying all over the world to create MVs, hosting mega events, that's the HARD part. If it was easy, AKS would have thrown its overseas groups a bone by now, just ask the JKT fans.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  10. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    JKT are still twiddling their thumbs, despite the fact that they have better relations with AKB and for several times already Yuihan / Melody has talked about "getting JKT an original song"
     
  11. Cisalpine88

    Cisalpine88 Next Girls

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    Where exactly is the extensive analysis? Surely you must have posted the wrong link: that page is just an opinion piece arguing that, since there was no clause in the contract forbidding S*H to create sister groups on their own accord, they aren't doing anything wrong at all, and AKS should rather be happy that they are expanding the market on their behalf (what about using their logo patterns and keeping their songs without permission, for one thing? I want to believe Mainland China has at least some regulations about franchising, in order to prevent branch offices from stealing everything and going full rogue all the time).
    Then, it even concludes by making fun of Japanese companies for still believing in the outdated and "galapagos" concept of giri and ninjo, and expecting foreign partners to follow it as well.
    Well, can't argue with that when it comes to dealing with China. For a country that had a Cultural Revolution they managed to eradicate every ounce of culture and morality from the mainland, I'm sure duty and compassion died along with them a long time ago.
    The breakup is legally alright, what it's arguing is how legitimate the justification was.

    I read your post and I can't get over the fact it sounds more like a sales pitch hoping to sway people to SNH, than anything else.
    "Three digits growth" and "Google trends" numbers (which everyone seems to misrepresent) are arguments that can woo financial investors, but you are talking to common fans who are already downloading content "for free" on torrents (China-style!) and often don't have enough money to throw at anyone anyway. Some of us are "early adopters" who got into AKB long before its rise, even, so these numbers really have no impact on judgement.

    For those who can enjoy AKB content beyond simply watching a music video and looking at how well they are doing on the charts, I'm sure that what brings us to follow the Japanese groups is a certain "AKB-ness" in the way the lyrics, shows, dramas, etc... are produced. Which is directly related to the creative vision of Akimoto and those who have been working close to him for all those years. Remove them completely from the project and put someone else with different visions in charge, and some might just lose interest. Nothing wrong with that.

    It's not unnatural for fans to be put off by S*H when the group seems to lack this sort of atmosphere they have grown to love and appreciate with AKB, and at times it looks like they aim at the opposite direction with unmodest artificiality more akin to kpop.
    Actually, it's a pretty damn natural response.
    Many fans of comics/movies react with disapproval when a certain director dies/is fired and the company still wants to churn out new episodes --or reboots the series anew-- after their departure, despite lacking their same creative sense.
    Likewise, many fans react with disapproval when they see one of those "expanded universe" books/comics trying to cash in on a certain established series, while at the same time disregarding all the established canons (when not simply crapping all over it).
    Here, this is what S*H feels like to me. The Japanese groups are the main series, the Chinese copycats are unauthorized "expanded universe" episodes. Before you continue at least give me the freedom to say "It's not my cup of tea", thank you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  12. kirashogun

    kirashogun Kenkyuusei

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    Without the contract, everything is speculation but you can still analyse based on what is publicly available. You might heard of the phrase, all's fair in love and war.

    The message I'm trying to sell is don't judge SNH's girls, their talent and the content based on pre-conceived legal and moral judgement. And no, SNH doesn't need any more people buying their theatre tickets, they are almost impossible to get anyway as they sell out so fast. but I don't want people to judge the content SNH is creating based on legalities which really, unless you own shares in AKS or Star48, has no relevance to the content.

    Also your reference to torrenting shows you know nothing about SNH. SNH songs and theatre performances are downloadable from their official website, shock horror. AKS won't even agree to Youtube Red's T&Cs.

    Thanks for the rant about your personal values on your moral high horse but really, it's irrelevant.

    This is what peeves me off, JKT girls has a lot of talent yet they haven't been given the opportunity to truly shine on their own terms without just constantly singing translated AKB48 hand me downs. This is the same thing that happened in SNH in the early days. The lyrics don't even rhyme.

    However, original content costs a shed load of $$$ (despite what some AKB diehards seems to think), I suspect the financials may not stack up for JKT just yet for AKS, JKT really needs a third party financial backer if SNH was any indication. Anyway I know there are a lot of Indonesian SNH fans, who knows, Star48 may money roll JKT at some stage lol.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2017
  13. trxsh

    trxsh Member

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    Pretty much this.

    Honestly SNH fans, no one is stopping you from stanning your group, the arrogant posturing about how superior SNH is and arguments for how legal and right everything SNH's management did that are always popping up in these sections are so ridiculous and void of logic that they reek of religious devotion. This is obviously the kind of commitment the SNH management is going for though, as they consistently exploit political tension and nationalistic feelings (probably also a puzzling inferiority complex) in order to garner support for whatever unethical decision they choose to take.

    Honestly I don't even care very much if people want to enjoy the group regardless of what they do, maybe the constant hostile political overtones don't entice you to dig further (same, bruh). If anyone likes their content then they should enjoy what they want. I always checked all SNH's original content when it first started appearing but it simply doesn't appeal to me, I don't think it's as sharp as kpop and I don't find the melodies as unique, inspiring and sweet as the AKB classics that hooked me, but then again, I feel the same way about the most recent AKB releases as well. Which is why it's so silly to hear all these comparisons between SNH at its peak and AKB in its twilight. AKB is obviously not a sensation anymore, they are kinda just there. I'm hardly a fan anymore either, I basically just check around social media now and then to see if anything interesting interesting happened, etc.

    Edit again: v Sorry @kirashogun I guess something did happen with my browser lol, I had 5 posts in a row showing for you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  14. superficialfan

    superficialfan Kenkyuusei

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    Man, you're running a clinic on how not to promote a group. [hehe]

    Let me give you a spoiler alert, we know K-pop exists, which is the real alternative to J-pop and AKB48. Most people here picked AKB48 for a reason.
     
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  15. kirashogun

    kirashogun Kenkyuusei

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    Yeah I knew something was wrong when you said posts were disappearing. :)
     
  16. kirashogun

    kirashogun Kenkyuusei

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    Well from the start, you were on your moral high horse so it's your loss.

    Musical preference is personal so there is no "better" music that's for sure but to say SNH is all about KPOP is again speaking out of ignorance. The BEJ48 B-side has been ALL Jpop fan service. Makes sense, they got koshin to back these tracks.

    Really the defensive nature of some of these replies puzzles me. How many of you gave 2 hoots about SNH when it was just a me too AKB sister group?
     
  17. superficialfan

    superficialfan Kenkyuusei

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    Well I don't go to the SNH part of the site and trash anyone, so no I don't really see where you're coming from. This isn't a sports forum, you need to use a bit more elegance when you visit an AKB fan forum and hype your team.
     
  18. superficialfan

    superficialfan Kenkyuusei

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    The AKB48 News & Releases sub-forum, I meant.

    I'm all for SNH48 if it is promoted to me in an honest and likable manner.
     
  19. sscrla

    sscrla Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

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    Why are we talking about SNH in a thread about the new AKB theater in Shanghai? There is a separate thread for SNH.

    See the first post.
    "Edit: Please do not turn this thread in to bash China or Japan vs China. I had get mod involved because of racist comments previously.

    Yesterday AKB members Mayu, Izuta and Sayaya went to Shanghai for a press conference and fan appreciation. They announced the creation of AKB48 China."
     
  20. superficialfan

    superficialfan Kenkyuusei

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    Good point sscrla, let's never talk about that subject again. (lol)

    I hope AKB48 China makes a ton of money, unfortunately it seems unlikely. I hope I am wrong.
     

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