[GENERAL] The Sakurazaka46 / Keyakizaka46 Thread

Discussion in 'General Sakurazaka46 Discussion' started by ForrestFuller, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    Lol interesting that you think so. Nah, talking about that intruder
     
  2. miwa

    miwa Kenkyuusei

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    If your comment was supposed to be about how idol groups aren't very popular with the public then that's fine. Because that's true and everyone knows that. But you called Keyakizaka a niche group compared to Nogizaka and AKB when that's not technically the truth, is it? I gave you examples that Keyakizaka's songs do reasonably well with the general public (as much as idol songs can do well). It's not a stretch to say they're more popular than AKB at the moment. Nobody is saying that they're the most popular group in Japan right now or that everyone in Japan knows them or loves them. The problem was in calling them a niche group when they're blatantly not.
     
  3. turbogig

    turbogig Kenkyuusei

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    At first, I wanted to write a long and detailed post, but then I thought to myself. What are you even arguing about? The notion that Keyaki is a "very niche group" is simply wrong. How to define "very niche"? What metrics are we even supposed to use in order to support this idea? If it's not numbers or TV appearances, then what? No artist (idol or not) can be equally popular among all people. Not even AKB, Nogi, Arashi or BTS or whatever.
     
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  4. SteCola

    SteCola Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    The "niche group" statement is obviously wrong, but I can get a similar sense of it. Despite being still popular, it's the image that Keyakizaka was portraying that was "niche" and not more comfortable for the girls and the group to be seen in a different way than the "emo" one, and it was too strong at that point and prevented keya girls to do other things, songs, funny commercials, tv apperances that other sakamichi girls were/are doing. As I posted before:

     
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  5. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    Keyaki isn't the only idol with such image. There is BiS and also Passcode. It's with mainstream idols that will find keyaki with such image. Therefore saying they are a 'niche' group is sorta calling that image their very own which has been the argument non-keyaki fans alway put out here. Moreover, they do other concepts too & not necessarily that image. They are dynamic and can be more. Calling it Niche is overrated

    Edit: it's really sad to see this continuing. Having a thought you refuse to let go even tho you know you are wrong, but still go ahead to voice out, cos you just wanna create some argument. Not gonna say anything abt this anymore. It's a waste of time & energy
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  6. turbogig

    turbogig Kenkyuusei

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    Let's not pretend that Keyaki is something it isn't. By no means is it a rock/punk/emo/metal group. Nowhere near, in fact. In the end, it's all about marketing. Same old basic Aki-P formula, but this time with a new flavor. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not, if we look at the basics, Keyaki is as mainstream as any other 46/48 group. The "emo image" can't be the sole reason they got less CMs or side jobs than <insert group name>.
     
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  7. SteCola

    SteCola Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    it's not what they are, but how they associate them. The image of Keya being "dark" was too strong, the techicentrism was all over the top, and the other members felt all of this soffucating while other 46 groups had a more flexible image which is favored in the entertainment industry. That's the main point of why the name change. Keyakizaka as a brand was still really popular, so totally changing its name and giving up on the "keyakizaka mark", has a huge impact and of course you do it only cause there are valid reasons. And the main reason is that one to me, end that chapter and start a new one with an image more similar to the Nogizaka and Hinatakaza approach, which is more suitable for the girls.
     
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  8. turbogig

    turbogig Kenkyuusei

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again. While a new name might sound like it will solve all their problems, it won't. People will compare it to Techizaka. People will say that this song or that center was better. People will say the previous style was better. Unless they pull a complete 180 and start singing enka, the psychological pressure won't disappear.

    The most recent thing I've come up with is this. The management simply doesn't want to see the new singles' low numbers (without Hiragana and after all that happened, there's no way to sell a million copies). Creating a "new" group just inherently lowers expectations of all parties involved and helps them save their faces. Simple as that. Imagine "Keyaki sold only 600k without Hirate" provocative headlines. Now, that would be a tricky pill to swallow.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  9. SteCola

    SteCola Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    I can't agree with this, Keya already had "ambivalent" and "kuroi hitsuji" which failed to reach 1 million sales, and they still had Techi. So it's kinda the opposite, now with new 2ki and shin 2ki members, the sales could only go up compared to kuroi hitsuji, and that's without having techi (and I'm not counting dare ga sono kane which didn't have a physical release with HS system), I don't think it's based on sales this choice but more on what I said.
     
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  10. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    I so can't wait for last live and for the group to rebrand
     
  11. turbogig

    turbogig Kenkyuusei

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    @SteCola
    Oh come on, the number of members is the only thing that truly matters. What I really meant is that during 1mil era Keyaki had 21 OGs plus 21 Hiraganas. Having 28 members is one of the limiting factors. Nowadays Keaki and Hinata can only dream about reaching those numbers.
    And Ambivalent did eventually reach 1mil.
    The "Techi" part was just me trying to emulate the press. Did you believe I was serious?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  12. Meiji Ishin

    Meiji Ishin Kenkyuusei

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    Ding ding ding we have a winner. For a more recent comparison look at Hina and Nogi. On a per idol basis Hina out sells Nogi, if we look at on a per HS slot basis and assume the number of people per slots are equal then it's about even with maybe a very slight edge to Nogi.
     
  13. SteCola

    SteCola Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    we're saying the same thing, the sales of the next single would just go up compared to kuroi hitsuji thanks to 2ki and new 2ki members addition for HS, so saying the rebrand is to avoid the "sales decline without techi" statement doesn't make sense, cause it's the opposite, they would just go up while still mantaining the Keyakizaka name.
    Of course techi not being anymore on the group has to do with the change name decision, but it's not about press and people talking about sales decline.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  14. Meiji Ishin

    Meiji Ishin Kenkyuusei

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    The easy comparison for the first release post re-brand will be Hina. Hina has 22 members right now, Keya 28 and I expect 2-6 members will leave before the re-debut so both groups will be roughly equal in number of members
     
  15. SteCola

    SteCola Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    I don't think there are graduations coming, if these 1st gen girls weren't supposed to be on the new group's name, would've already left like Nagasawa.

    And Nogi can be comparable too, they have the double amount of members, but the senpai and most popular ones at a certain amount and time, stop doing handshakes, from 1ki only Higuchi and Waada are still doing HS, and they're not exaclty the most popular members. They're around 30 at the moment doing HS, not so much difference, especially if you consider you miss lot of potential 30/30 HS girls.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  16. Meiji Ishin

    Meiji Ishin Kenkyuusei

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    The re-brand was sprung on them right before their online live, so if anything that pushed any desired grads back, the re-brand probably also got some members thinking about graduation. Expect announcements of the grads shortly before or during their last live. I'll name the 6 possibles in order of likelihood based solely on my own opinion.
    1. Pe-chan 2. Umera 3. Fu-chan 4. Rikopi 5. Nijika 6. Ozeki.'
     
  17. turbogig

    turbogig Kenkyuusei

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    Please stop it about Techi. That's not the actual reason why any imaginary Keyakizaka or xxxzaka single is going to sell worse. Techi's name will just be brought up by Bunshun and Co to spice the things up.
    Cumulative Kuroi Hitsuji sales were ~900k. With 2ki and Hiragana boosting up about those HS sales. I repeat, it's virtually impossible to sell even that much with current members. If current Keyakizaka sells 500k it's a failure, if xxxzaka can reach 500k in the first week, it will beat Hinata's Kyun and become the highest selling debut ever. Feel the diffrence?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  18. SteCola

    SteCola Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    so are you really thinking this name change has to do with sales? You're cancelling a famous and notorious brand for a new one just cause probably you can't reach the same amount of sales as before? Seems dumb to me, especially cause if it was for sales they woudl've added even more members, and you just need a 3rd gen in a short time to have enough girls to keep sales grow and reach again the million sales.
    Are you really thinking the group will not change its image and type of songs too giving up on that emo image? Cause to me it's pretty blatant that it is happening and is the main reason of the name change, they don't want anymore to be associated with that "dark idols" image.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  19. turbogig

    turbogig Kenkyuusei

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    You're too fast to reply. Here's what I added a few seconds before your post. While it's not the sole reason, it's one of the things they can manipulate to gain good/bad publicity. Everything is relative.
     
  20. SteCola

    SteCola Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    lol sorry :D But that's not a hiragana keyaki going to hinatazaka thing. That one makes sense cause from a b-side group unknown to the public they go to individual and build their own brand and have their own strong sales. Makes less sense from a very well known, popular and defined group like Keyakizaka to cancel its name for a new one... there would be much serious and important reasons for that.

    It's like if Nogizaka suddenly has a strong sales decline with popular members graduation and management thinks "let's change the group's name and restart with a new one so this decline doesn't exist", and cancel Nogizaka image and brand which is so huge, important and strong, suddenly, for a reason like that. Meh.
     
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