[GENERAL] The Sakurazaka46 / Keyakizaka46 Thread

Discussion in 'General Sakurazaka46 Discussion' started by ForrestFuller, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. Meiji Ishin

    Meiji Ishin Kenkyuusei

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    The re-brand was sprung on them right before their online live, so if anything that pushed any desired grads back, the re-brand probably also got some members thinking about graduation. Expect announcements of the grads shortly before or during their last live. I'll name the 6 possibles in order of likelihood based solely on my own opinion.
    1. Pe-chan 2. Umera 3. Fu-chan 4. Rikopi 5. Nijika 6. Ozeki.'
     
  2. turbogig

    turbogig Kenkyuusei

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    Please stop it about Techi. That's not the actual reason why any imaginary Keyakizaka or xxxzaka single is going to sell worse. Techi's name will just be brought up by Bunshun and Co to spice the things up.
    Cumulative Kuroi Hitsuji sales were ~900k. With 2ki and Hiragana boosting up about those HS sales. I repeat, it's virtually impossible to sell even that much with current members. If current Keyakizaka sells 500k it's a failure, if xxxzaka can reach 500k in the first week, it will beat Hinata's Kyun and become the highest selling debut ever. Feel the diffrence?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  3. SteCola

    SteCola Kenkyuusei

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    so are you really thinking this name change has to do with sales? You're cancelling a famous and notorious brand for a new one just cause probably you can't reach the same amount of sales as before? Seems dumb to me, especially cause if it was for sales they woudl've added even more members, and you just need a 3rd gen in a short time to have enough girls to keep sales grow and reach again the million sales.
    Are you really thinking the group will not change its image and type of songs too giving up on that emo image? Cause to me it's pretty blatant that it is happening and is the main reason of the name change, they don't want anymore to be associated with that "dark idols" image.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  4. turbogig

    turbogig Kenkyuusei

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    You're too fast to reply. Here's what I added a few seconds before your post. While it's not the sole reason, it's one of the things they can manipulate to gain good/bad publicity. Everything is relative.
     
  5. SteCola

    SteCola Kenkyuusei

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    lol sorry :D But that's not a hiragana keyaki going to hinatazaka thing. That one makes sense cause from a b-side group unknown to the public they go to individual and build their own brand and have their own strong sales. Makes less sense from a very well known, popular and defined group like Keyakizaka to cancel its name for a new one... there would be much serious and important reasons for that.

    It's like if Nogizaka suddenly has a strong sales decline with popular members graduation and management thinks "let's change the group's name and restart with a new one so this decline doesn't exist", and cancel Nogizaka image and brand which is so huge, important and strong, suddenly, for a reason like that. Meh.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  6. Meiji Ishin

    Meiji Ishin Kenkyuusei

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    You're just wrong, to once again bring up the Hina comparison for their 25th single Nogi had 35 members participating and 840 HS slots initially by comparison for their 4th single Hina had 18 members participating and 540 HS slots initially. Those numbers aint close.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  7. SteCola

    SteCola Kenkyuusei

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    yeah but from Nogizaka there are members not partecipating in HS (currently all the 1ki for example, apart of the two least popular remaining from that gen), that are all strong 30/30 HS sellers. That makes much difference removing these girls from this. All Hinata girls are still doing HS even the more popular ones, and same as Keya ones (apart of Techi which stopped). So if you consider that, yeah, there's still difference but not as much as people would think.

    But yeah, I agree it makes more sense to compare their future sales with Hinatazaka's ones.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  8. Meiji Ishin

    Meiji Ishin Kenkyuusei

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    Yes it is detrimental to Nogi sales but even with those members not participating Nogi still has a lot more members participating overall and more HS slots and it's big assumption that all HS slots for both groups contain the same number of people, I tend to think they don't but since we never get any official word on how many are in one I just have to make that assumption.
     
  9. Philosophy Senpai

    Philosophy Senpai Kenkyuusei

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    Now, I have to admit that what SteCola says here is not far from reality. We may disagree on many things but I can relate to what he/she says here after my current "exploration" of all past Nogi episodes/history.

    At least on this specific post I do not think he is expressing anything negative about the group (except that I totally disagree with what he said about the new group having a similar image to Nogi/Hinata: no for god's sake no! Kayaki was and needs to stay unique!).

    Keyakizaka was and still is extremely popular but has followed such a diverse course from previous Aki-P "recipes" that even right from the start any events (or landmarks) that served as the staple for the development of AKB and Nogi (senbatsu and the resulting psychological burden, internal drama, extreme new single campaigns, exclusion of unders from screen time, harsh treatment of members by the MCs and so many more) were simply out-of-the-question for the untouchable 21 and the mild and smooth Keyakitte Kakenai experience.

    In just three lines I summarized what I wanted to say regarding my own perception and conclusions of how different these sister groups are. Both were blessed with success by taking different paths (and this, at least to me, explains why the core fans of each group find it hard to understand each other). As I said before, Keyaki's way to success was based on decisions that eventually lead the group to where it is now: a dead-end that has to be removed "the hard way".
     
  10. turbogig

    turbogig Kenkyuusei

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    To sum up, Techizaka was both a gift and a curse.
    And to this day S&F remains incompetent. If anything, the recent Fuckyouwaon thing only highlighted this.
    Don't know about you guys, I choose to remain skeptical about this whole shebang.
     
  11. SteCola

    SteCola Kenkyuusei

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    When I say becoming more a group like Nogizaka or Hinatazaka I'm not saying becoming a clone of them. Of course they'll still have their trademark even if new, but their image will probably be more "idol-friendly, approachable, flexible", to do all the things that before weren't that suitable for them cause of that strong "rebellious emo" image.

    Nogizaka and Hinatazaka both have idolish cute songs, elegant songs, cool songs, even dark ones Nogi (I'm not sure about Hinata cause I don't know all their songs) and both have different kind of members... but they still have their own uniqueness and distinctive trait. Nogizaka being the "elegant / refined group", while Hinatazaka being the "joyful / light-hearted group". And this image is influenced in lot of their songs and their members attitude but never to a point that felt somehow blurring or problematic for the group.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  12. too much idea

    too much idea Upcoming Girls

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    I think they'll simply go back to their 2016 style / core. The past few years they have been too trapped within the emo and dark vibe, so much that people forgot how flexible / expressive they really are
     
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  13. Conjyak

    Conjyak Kenkyuusei

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    I'm not very knowledgeable about AKB, but I think at Nogi's very beginning, Nogi's relatively frequent sembatsu (e.g. the first few weeks of Nogidoko were portrayed as "a sembatsu every week") was portrayed to be more frequent/harsh than AKB. Nogi's new single campaigns are portrayed as "extreme," I agree. I don't agree about "harsh treatment of members by MCs." In terms of harshness, I don't feel a difference between Nogidoko/Nogichuu and Keyakake, and the very first episode of Keyabingo was IMO the harshest variety segment I've seen of Sakamichi. The way I see it, the beginning of Nogi, they tried to sometimes be more "extreme" than AKB, and after a while, found their Nogi "culture" identity which is very mild and lovey-dovey (most obvious in the difference between Nogibingo 1 (AKB clone) and after Nogibingo 1 (very "Nogi culture")). Nogi's beginning was definitely under the cultural umbrella of AKB but management tried to differentiate them by being more extreme at times and then becoming very mild. When Keyaki started in 2015/2016, Nogi had already reached their mild culture a while ago. To me, that's where Keyaki's mildness that you mention comes from. Just naturally came from being a sister Sakamichi group. What I'm trying to say is, I don't think grouping AKB and Nogi (especially after they became mild) as the same recipe is precise or helpful (or else it's hard to explain how Nogi became bigger than AKB) and at least in the beginning of Keyaki (up to the first 3 singles), I don't think differentiating them from Nogi too much is accurate either. In other words, I would caution against overestimating the similarity between Nogi and AKB and overestimating the difference between Nogi and the beginnings of Keyaki (first 3 singles). You mention internal drama, but at least from the outside perspective, the perception is that the last couple years of Keyaki has had loads more internal drama than other Sakamichi groups - like on a different level, and there is also the perception that that internal drama is a major reason for the rebranding.

    Keyaki obviously is a big and successful brand, though. How to combine emo and edgy songs and variety is up to the members and management. Just like how to combine elegant and classy songs and variety (since variety is often where the loud, aggressive, and vulgar get the most attention) is an issue. Both are IMO possible if the members and management can pull it off. But don't pretend to ignore that there are Keyaki members who have always been quite cutesy. "Gambariki" is not emo nor edgy lol. You can like both the songs and the members, of course. But when people say, "I hope they don't become just another cutesy idol group," have people not noticed that there are Keyaki members that are cutesy and have always been pretty cutesy? I guess because I'm more into the variety than the music, and IMHO, the variety can be closer to the members' identities whereas the music represents more the management and producers' musical vision (with the big exception of Techi since clearly a lot of Keyaki music and Techi's artistic identity go hand-in-hand), I think each of these groups are two-sided (at least two sides). One is the music and the other is the other stuff like variety. If you like both, don't forget to know that you are liking a side of them that is not talking about getting their skirts slashed or breaking glass.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  14. gish0046

    gish0046 Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    Lmao Keyaki did their Unders so dirty they actually left and formed their own group.
     
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  15. STS

    STS Kenkyuusei

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    It's not my opinion! It's their image. Try to read my comment again.
    Also I still don't understand where you see their popularity... I don't know anyone who even hear about them in Japan.
    AND STOP this discussion! I don't understand you, you don't understand me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  16. too much idea

    too much idea Upcoming Girls

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    Well in Nikkei Entertainment's Talent Survey for Female Idol Group, Keyaki have managed to rank consistently quite high into the chart in terms of public recognition

    2017, 2018, 2019, 2020. Sure they are still beneath Nogizaka46, but they are just as high as TWICE

    EDIT: Another in-depth interview worth reading, this time from Akanen
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  17. STS

    STS Kenkyuusei

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    Twice was seriously popular that true. TT pose was being everywhere. Tiktok, CM, every japanese youtubers try to makeup like Twice etc. Everyone know who they are. I couldn't say that about keyaki. But of course their fandom is huge! And Saimajyo was quietly popular. I never said that keyaki are unpopular underground idol group. But your representation about the group and Japanese idol girls overall is very distorted.
     
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  18. gish0046

    gish0046 Rank 81-100 (Temporary Name)

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    So Keyaki had been on Kouhaku 4 times (or was it 3?) and has sold out Tokyo Dome but no one in Japan has heard of them?

    You say no one in Japan knows Keyaki but then you say their fan base is huge? Which is it?
     
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  19. too much idea

    too much idea Upcoming Girls

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    You asked about popularity. I gave you data showing their public recognition for 4 years since I don't think "I don't know anyone who even hear about them in Japan" is a good argument to judge how popular they are
     
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  20. miwa

    miwa Kenkyuusei

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    But you said that they're a very niche group when that is not true. Nobody is saying they're crazy popular or that they're the most popular group in Japan. People here know that idol groups aren't very popular with the public. We're just objecting to you acting as if Keyaki is a niche group when it's not.
     

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