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Single Keyakizaka46 9th / Last Single [Dare ga Sono Kane wo Narasu no ka?] (2020/08/21)

Discussion in 'Sakurazaka46 News & Releases' started by minaeshi, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Generic_User

    Generic_User Under Girls Stage48 Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Location:
    Isulando
    Oshimen:
    The Ikuta Erika
    Does anyone else see Suzumoto's relegation to 'Unders' as some type of strategic move? Put a strong member in Under center, then you get a really good one-two punch for the single.

    Truth be told, most of my Keyaki favorites are now Under members. Being a Nogi fan I am used to being delighted by the Under songs. When it's good, it can be better than the senbatsu song. In a few more singles with strong Under songs, you'll be happy to see what they produce next. And, in a few years when there are many Under songs that are as good as, if not better, than the main single, you'll wonder why they didn't try it earlier.

    Yeah, it kind of sucks that someone had to be an Under, but it had to happen because of the group's growing size. The struggle to make senbatsu that the Under members commence every time is one of those reasons to cheer them on. To see them make it will be one of your favorite memories of the group. I know I'll shed a tear seeing my favorites make senbatsu.
     
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  2. valerien

    valerien Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2019

    In addition to my previous post, after reading the other posts on this thread. Hopefully this will not be a long post :)

    Coming from Australia and having worked in Korea for several years, I'm more accustomed to a primary figure within a group rather than a rotating system as seem to the norm in Japan. So I will look at this from an objective point of view, hopefully I won't hurt anyone's feelings. This is a discussion after all.

    I have already touched on the senbatsu members, so I don't think there is much to add to that. Just to point out the fact that I very much doubt they left out Suzumon because she isn't good enough, but probably due to her upcoming plans in the near future or even a possible graduation soon.

    Now onto the "Techi centre" conundrum :) Four points -

    1. Management probably didn't want to take that much of a risk after already taking a risk with the senbatsu system and leaving out first generation members and including the majority of inexperienced second generation members. Giving prominent positions such as two second generation members flanking an inexperienced centre position in the front row is probably too big of a risk to take for them. Imagine having a nervous girl centering her first single being flanked by two much more nervous girls in their first single. It might work out well, but it's a risk that they are not willing to take at this point.

    2. I truly believe that the more prominent members of the group such as the two captains are consulted with regards to important decisions so as to not disrupt group harmony, but of course management has the final say. The biggest risk is the risk taken by the girls. Management can always start another group like how they did with the hiraganas, fans will always go from one group to the next, but some of the first generation members have put all their eggs into the Keyakizaka46 basket and not even contemplating a future outside of the entertainment circle such as higher education etc. And I also believed that Hirate had seriously contemplated graduation. Discussions among her, management and the girls probably came to the compromise that she stay on with the group and that they will remove everything else from her plate such as handshake events, variety shows, usual live shows etc and only appearing on one-off occasions such as singles, MVs, big events and publicity events for the group. Between her leaving the group in its current fragile state with no one popular enough on her own to carry the group, they probably decided that this was the best option. She gets her rest and recuperate and only appearing in events that directly affect sales such as singles, MVs and live events such as Keyaki Republic and Tokyo Dome which will generate DVD sales.

    As much as the fans of the respective members want, the first generation members themselves probably have gotten over wanting to be centre and are happy with their current positions without the added pressure while still being able to pursue activities under the Keyakizaka46 banner that suit their personalities. For example, Watanabe Risa with modelling activities etc. They are more concerned with the risk that Keyakizaka46 stay relevant especially those who have invested everything and their immediate future into this group. Centre position right now is secondary to their worries or even not a concern. Don't fix what is not broken etc etc.

    3. Every time I see a discussion about the centre position, it's always along the lines of "She has centered many singles. Time for another girl." or "Give another girl a chance and she will be a great centre." Somewhere along those lines. I think it's too late for that now for the first generation members. Not wanting to sound harsh, but if you haven't done enough to force management and the majority of the other members to want you to centre a single for the past 3 years, then it will probably never come. The first single without Hirate Yurina as centre will be centered by a second generation or even a third generation member. Generally speaking, no matter being centre or not, outstanding and charismatic performers will stand out and force themselves to be picked one way or another and generally management be pressured into picking them or the majority of the other members having the opinion that she should be the centre. Either no one stands out on their own up until now, or no one is better than the current center at her best. And that is the harsh truth. An example, Ikoma even being centre for the first five singles, other girls had overtaken her up to the point where management had no other choice.

    4. Which brings me to the final point. The discussion shouldn't be such as "Kobayashi Yui should be center because Hirate Yurina has centered enough singles and it's time for someone else to be center". It should be "Kobayashi Yui should be center because she is better than Hirate Yurina". Throughout the year where she hasn't appeared, no one member has staked her claim. It's always been a rotation of members centering different songs, which tells me that there isn't a clear frontrunner within the group that is accepted within the group. Subconsciously, everyone has it in their minds that "they are filling in for Hirate until she comes back". Until someone appears to change the perception of the management and the other members whether it be from the first, second or even third generation, the status quo will not change until she graduates.
     
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  3. Tanoichan

    Tanoichan Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2019
    Oshimen:
    Harada Aoi
    I will write what I felt during the announcement and what I think now.

    During the announcement.
    -I was glad to see Aoi in the senbatsu and I was surprised/happy when I heard Inori's name.
    -Relieved when I hear Pe was chosen.
    -Didn't expect to hear Shiichan name, but I was happy because they chose her.
    -Sad when I didn't hear Naako's name.
    -Expecting Koike to be named in 2nd row or 1st row.
    -//Hoping// Risa or Pon :arrow: center.
    -I was really sad when I saw Risa crying.
    -Disappointed when I heard Risa and Pon positions.
    -Worried when I realized that Mon and Koike had not been called yet and there were 3 positions left.
    -Happy when I heard Matsurina and Hono, but frustrated because I knew she would be center again.:fp:
    -I felt angry when the group's best performer(aka Mon) and Miichan were left out. :explode:
    -Disappointed when I realized they don't want to change the center and angry again when I saw Techi injured.
    -Sad to know Rikop and Tenten were the only 2ki members who were not selected. :cry:
    -When I only saw senbatsu members in Keyakitte and there are not variety members...wwww
    -I wondered how the single would be without the members who can sing(Fuuchan and Nijika...and Mon) and without the best dancers(Mon, Fuuchan, Nijika and Miichan).:?:
    -"Nothing about under girls?"
    -"Techi looks so done.":)


    After thinking about it.
    -Seems that they want to make changes step by step.
    -Techi need to rest...A LOT.
    -I think it is a problem that the group depends so much on Techi. It's not member's fault... at all.
    -All member senbatsu seemed like a good idea at first but it ended up being a problem that affected the girls a lot.
    -Probably, they will rotate senbatsu until they find a permanent one.
    -A fair distribution senbatsu-under was necessary too.
    -Senbatsu-under system can create a positive competitiveness that is necesary for the group to move forward.
    -The group was stagnated and even Yuuka knew it.
    -Mon always seems so pasive about being center or changes in general. I sometimes feel frustated. I don't think she is going to graduate(or I hope not) but this can make her to wake up and realize how capable she is.
    -Miichan has a lot of potential and she can show it more in ug(for this single).
    -We can see Mon or Miichan as center and maybe Naako(I want to see it).
    -We can see more of Fuuchan, Nijika, Oze and Dani; Tenten and Rikop too.
    -I love to see Marina and Hono surrounding Techi and Pon and Risa in the front row.
    -Aoi and Inori together!
    -Aoi in senbatsu again.:inlove:
    (-I want Aoi as center:hehe:)

    In conclusion: After thinking about it, I like this changes and I'm excited.
     
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  4. EinhanderX

    EinhanderX Next Girls

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    As a Nanako oshi, I'm not feeling anything about this senbatsu. I'll just buy more of her merch for atonement. Maybe her fans lack of loudness compared to the other camp is something that caused her drop. Idk.

    But at least Keya fans have experienced something they never have(senbatsu rotation). Usually such shock expand ours horizon of view and make us think more. I know I do back in other group i supported as well, and this is a more realistic expectation than say.... all-senbatsu/center change.

    Finger crossed.
     
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  5. ajma93632

    ajma93632 Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2019
    Oshimen:
    Shiraishi Mai
    Although I'm still skeptical about if this is really a senbatsu rotation, I hope more members get chances to shine like having an Under-center. I hope we can get to know the details soon.
     
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  6. DelicateEmpress

    DelicateEmpress Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2019
    Oshimen:
    hirateyurina
    Regarding how pillar members are dropped, I agree with @Generic_User that this is a strategic move from mmg (although we don't know if it'll work or not). In other groups, the senbatsu usually consists of the most popular members and/or best hs sellers and the less popular ones are shoved to the back, hence the name Unders. Yet with so many strong and skilled members in Unders (until I can find a better term), they're actually balancing out and make sure that fans will give attention to non-senbatsu members too. I personally feel like there are too many 2nd gen in the formation but since mmg is really pushing them, I guess it makes sense.

    Then we also need to consider the concept of the new single. Mmg has not shied away from rotating the girls regardless of hs sales and popularity. In my honest opinion, mmg has done a pretty good job at creating formation based on the girls' fitness to the song concepts (this also shows through center substitution in concerts). For example, if the formation is purely based on hs and popularity, then Nijika would not be in front row of Hitsuji, yet putting her there was a great choice. Both Shiichan and Aoi are better at ballet/more graceful dances, also the inclusion of Ue and Hono 1st row, I can't help but be curious about the concept this time. Keyaki has never disappointed me and I know the members will work hard to give us the best performance regardless of their positions. So I'd like to keep supporting Keyaki.
     
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  7. charm

    charm Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Oshimen:
    Nagahama Neru
    Just seeing Techi entering the studio with a cast...breaks my heart.
    Hikaru being 2nd row center is literally making her the 2nd Neru.
    Suprised they push Matsuri instead of Karin.
     
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  8. Arbios

    Arbios Future Girls

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Oshimen:
    Komiyama Haruka
    really dissapointed that miichan,naako and suzumon didn't make it and that techi is still center
    still i'm very happy to see aoi back and also matsuda rina on front row

    i still don't understand how they dropped miichan when she has a pb coming out and is one of the best hs sellers
     
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  9. Dill

    Dill Next Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Oshimen:
    Techi
    @valerien interesting considerations. Great post!

    I have some doubt about this senbatsu but overall it feels a solid one to me, even though I keep thinking they could have chosen other ways to make Keyaki growing instead to fall back on the way 48 and Nogi work.
    Anyway,

    We got 4 solid dancers to the sides: Habu, Karin, TakeYui and Shiichan, plus Aoi, who I think got in also because she just came back, and Pon and Hikaru
    We got 2 2ki Inoue and Seki in the third row wich is good for them and for fans to see them perform
    We got 2 stellar HS sellers, Berika and Uemura
    Captain and Vice captain right now are a "must have" on senbatsu, especially with so many 2ki in it
    Hikaru is not my 2ki Oshi, even thought she's really near it, but I think that she has everything it takes to be "IT"; a star in the making, if you want. Having her in the middle is quite fitting.
    Pon and Risa are two of Keyaki faces since the start

    This is what I get from the formation, the thinking that I guess went on behind every choice, and I'm absolutely okay with them

    Keeping this formation I would have just put Techi in Hikaru place, and have Pon as center, but like others pointed out, I too think not having Techi as center would have been one change too much for mngmnt right now.
    What I don't get, even though I like them, are Marina and Hono in front row. Someone on twitter said Marina is confident, funny and easy spoken, so mngmnt may chose her so to push her in other varieties and such, and she may be Keyaki future leader in a way both Yuuka and Fuuchan are now, so there's that too.. but Hono was really a surprise for me.
    Like I said I like her very much so, it's fine like this, I just can't think of the reasons behind this choice, so if someone has some guesses I'd like to hear them.

    I expect all of them do their best next single, I hope, like many say, this change can really help senbatus and not senbatsu members to grow.

    I believe in them all and still think all of this could have been avoided, but since we are now trapped in this system, I hope the girls can take it and do their best to succeed without losing themselves in the process.
    And if fans think Keyaki difference depends on the senbatsu system... I fear they missed a lot.

    As for us, let's keep supporting the girls!
    (I'm not so sure Fuuchan and Mon weren't put in Unders in prevision of the new-new-girls coming, but even without 2ki and half, that is an hell of Unders group!)
     
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  10. miyabi

    miyabi Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Honestly, I'm over the complaning period (I did swore a lot during streaming Keyakake) after clearly reading members's comments and blogs. They are indeed the most anxious and sad about this change, even Techi herself said that. Both in and out senbatsu members (I dislike the term "under" so I will use those, some of them must be cameback in the next single) seem to talk with staffs a lot to erase their negative feeling - at least from what I read in Fuu and Hono's blogs. Now, this senbatsu is a "it cant be help" thing, we cant change it anymore in this single so why not continue to support all the girls?

    Leaving is your choice, Wota-ing is your choice but please remember one thing: the worse the result, the more affected the members, not the company as s.o said above, they can easily shift to another group or create new one. Eventhough I'm more of Techi only, this is the first time I truthly want to support all the girls especially the out members. I will definitely buy their merch in TKD since I believe, the best way to show your angry toward mngm decision is showing more and more support to our girls.

    (What's done is done so live for today. I am really affected by the way Hirate lives)
     
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  11. miwa

    miwa Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2019
    Oshimen:
    Sasaki Mirei
    I guess it's good that the forum was down so people were able to process this whole thing more properly.

    I was liking the senbatsu up until the center choice. I was really hoping Mon might have become the new center because it was impossible to me that she wasn't even included in the senbatsu. And yet, it's still Techi. I can't help but be worried that this is a sign that Mon might be graduating. To be fair, I've felt like she was a bit off for a while now but it would be such a shame if she graduates since she's one of the best performers in group. I can understand the argument that changing the center along with all these other changes would have been too much. If Techi wasn't wearing that sling perhaps I would have taken this better, but at this point I can only hope that her health is better and she will be fine for Tokyo Dome and the year end shows.

    As for the positives, I'm very happy to see Aoi back and 2ki in the senbatsu. I'm excited to see how they perform. I was quite shocked that Karin was put in third row since I thought management was slightly pushing her, but either way I'm looking forward to how they all do. Shame about Riko and Ten.

    Hopefully we get a release date soon!
     
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  12. Rev4

    Rev4 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    @valerien Well put. I couldn't have said it better myself.

    I also think the ship has sailed for 1gen to centre a senbatsu single after we have past 3 years and are now in the 4th year and we are approaching 5th year. Rina Ikoma was overtaken in 2013 after 5th single. Was it Naachan or did Hori centre 7th single? I don't remember who it was.

    If it's what @too much idea read about from Konno in the Nikkei Sports interview we need to be prepared for more surprises this year. I feel senbatsu system was only one of many steps mngt will take this year.

    As for 9th single I think mngt picked Monta, Fuuchan and Nijika in under because they need strong performers. It's all about balance. Sugai said she wants to start to think of everyone and not just as a senbatsu but as a whole group. If anyone overcome Techi as centre it will be 2gen. Fukyouwaon was a chance for 1gen to start compete on centre position but that plan failed. Mngt let it be and will always pick Techi as centre among 1gen.

    Under is not a bad thing though. I always felt Nogi's Unders did always had the best dancers among 1gen. That's where Nogidan was created too. More variety. Asuka used to be a Under.

    Fuuchan just said on her blog she will keep convey the song instead of having goals to overcome senbatsu. Her burning passion is more important.

    Despite no change of the centre I'm still excited about the songs and what they will call Unders in Keya and what they have in store for us in the future like 2nd album for example.
     
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  13. valerien

    valerien Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2019
    On a positive note, it's nice to see everyone having constructive discussions in this singles thread when compared to the recent previous singles. Maybe we all have just gotten older and wiser :) I do have several points to add to the discussion.

    1. Anger towards management is misplaced

    Despite all the negativity, I do believe that management for the most part have done the best they could in regards to making the best decisions for the group when compared to the other 48/46 groups. Of course, some mistakes have been made but we are all human. But for the most part, I believe they have gotten most things right.

    I truly believe that Keyakizaka46 is the most popular group right now within the 48/46 groups including AKB48 (and all her sister groups) and Nogizaka46. Their initial meteoric rise seemed to cloud the judgement of people, in that people are expecting a rise at the same rate throughout which is never a realistic possibility. Rather than a decline, I personally still see them inclining but at a much more gradual and healthy incline rather than the sharp initial incline. Kuroi Hitsuji which was by far the least promoted of their recent singles still managed to get within 100K+ of Nogizaka46's recent single sales, but without the handshake sales and the fan support of the hiraganas as well as having much lesser members in terms of quantity (which generates quite a substantial amount of handshake sales).

    Like I mentioned before, taking all that into account their Kuroi Hitsuji single sales still had an increase of approximately 30% which is very substantial. What is most telling is their increase in weekly sales, which show general public sentiment. Handshake sales mainly make up the first day sales so that's why you see such huge numbers coming out from AKB48 and their countless number of members and I don't quite keep up with Nogizaka46 but I believe they have something close to around 40 members, and that skews the numbers quite a bit. Despite all that and hiraganas breaking off into their own group and members graduating, Kuroi Hitsuji still managed to stay close and that speaks a lot about their popularity with the general public. Even on Nogizaka46 shows where members go into public and say that they are from an idol group and to guess which group, there are numerous times where the guess is Keyakizaka46. Influencer (17th single), which to me is one of Nogizaka46's better recent singles has a total sale of approximately the same as Garosu wo ware (6th single).


    2. Hirate Yurina is under-appreciated as the symbol of Keyakizaka46

    Make no mistake about it, Hirate Yurina is a big part of Keyakizaka46's meteoric rise to the top. And this isn't coming from a crazy Techi fan. The main reason management has dedicated so much resources into Keyakizaka46 is because of her, and because they believe she is the second coming of Christ ;) Whether or not their belief is misplaced, is a topic for a different discussion. She is by far the most influential current member of all the 48/46 groups when taking into account her significance to her group. It has been mentioned before in interviews that Aki-P even messaged her at 3am in the morning for opinions on songs shows that management trust in her is absolute in that if they are able to give her a song that she can relate to, then she will be able to deliver them a perfect product in terms of delivery and as a consequence, more sales. And the other members' trust in her is absolute, in that it has been generally accepted that she is the centre of the group and they trust that putting all their eggs in the "Techi-center" basket and placing their trust that the Keyakizaka46 direction in her image is the best way forward for the group as a whole.

    I cannot emphasize how significant this is, and how big of a part this plays into Keyakizaka46 being able to put out one strong single after another while other groups have at times put out lackluster single releases. This speaks volumes of the fact that they know that if they do not give Keyakizaka46 a good enough single that she is able to relate to and be proud of, then she isn't going to perform it (which has been mentioned in interviews). This is in itself more important than the debate regarding her center position. I will even go as far as to say that Keyakizaka46 will not have a bad single release as long as Hirate Yurina is the center of the group. The discussion should not be whether someone else will be able to replace her as center once she leaves the group (which she will sooner or later), because for sure someone else will eventually have to center the songs. But whether another member will be able to gain enough trust and influence with management so that enough resources are still dedicated to them for when she leaves.
     
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  14. Siniy

    Siniy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2017
    Twitter:
    _LeCielVAN
    After the anger and initial confusion, now only the confusion remains lol

    My mind continues to revolve around many things so I will try to expose them clearly, I need to vent somewhere. I have always opposed this "senbatsu system", I honestly hate it, I don't like it, it is one of the reasons that slow me down to completely follow any 48g or Nogizaka. When I met Keyakizaka, I gave them my heart without hesitation, it wasn't just the music, it was them. They are not simply my favorite idol group, without a doubt they are one of my favorite groups of all time. Perhaps we were too spoiled from the beginning, with all the girls entering the senbatsu, because even if not all the members had the attention we were looking for, they were part of something important. I can't say "why did they choose her and she didn't?", despite how annoying I am for the nine excluded members and although my oshi didn't enter the senbatsu either...
    I strongly refuse to call them Under, I dislike so much the division of the senbatsu girls and the under girls that is created among the fans, I also hope that the remaining girls in each single are like a "new unit" and have different names, not that Under thing.

    Am I getting used to the new system? No. Will I stop following Keyakizaka? Never. At least until the arrival of their 25th gen lol. I still love each member of this group, and of course, even though I wanted a change of center, I still love Techi as usual. We can't go back to the days when they were all senbatsu, it's sad, but the girls are facing it in the best way and I guess we should do the same.

    I write this while listening to Kimi ga inai, I'm still in denial and upset :hehe:

    Habu a good day, you know.
     
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  15. lonewolfryuu

    lonewolfryuu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Oshimen:
    kojimamako
    The only takeaway i see here is this is generating a lot of buzz at the expense of putting an obvious frontliner like Mon or Koike to the unders, the group itself as Sugai says (or so i heard if i'm not mistaken) is stagnating, so i guess this is one way to shake things up in the group, then again, the unders need a great leader to look up to if Keya will go this route from now on and Mon fits the bill just perfectly, hell, Mons unders might just blew away the senbatsu if they're given a great song with a great dance routine lol!, i think this is what the management wants good or bad reactions or whatnot.
     
  16. Asphyxia

    Asphyxia Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2019
    I really love how constructive this discussion is.

    we all see this coming since the separation of Hiragana. but I'm sure they are going on a good direction.

    I think management is trying to sort/fix every mistake they made and finally having vision on the things that they have failed to calibrate.

    no need to be upset why your oshi never get into senbatsu.
    remember Hiragana's have never been on A side the whole time they are a member of Keyaki but still selling as good.
    they are technically under but we just refuse to think they are.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  17. ZGhostRiderZ

    ZGhostRiderZ Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    There are 3 things that always right:
    - The sun rises in the East.
    - People will die eventually.
    - Techi will always be the center of Keya until she leaves the group.
     
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  18. GenKelC

    GenKelC Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Oshimen:
    satoshiori
    Well if you put Mon, Fuyuka, Nijika, Koike, together, thats heck on a group right there with the best dancers of Keyaki, things are gonna be interesting
     
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  19. Arbios

    Arbios Future Girls

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Oshimen:
    Komiyama Haruka
    at least all of the undergirls will have more screentime on their mv than all of keyaki's mvs combined lol
     
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  20. Kumosayi

    Kumosayi Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Oshimen:
    Kawata Hina
    I think the thing I dislike most about the constant center (more than me just liking the differences in singles when different members front them) are how much is it going to shorten Hirate's stay in the group? She seems almost constantly hurt, and she's had several pretty lackluster lives (and I'm assuming it's because she's overworked rather than her not bothering since she doesn't seem the type). If they let her rest more, share the burden of center over more members, I personally think there's a better chance of her staying for another 3-5 years. If management keep overworking her I think we'll be lucky if she stays out 2020. Unless they just release 1 single a year to let her rest I guess...

    Otherwise, pretty happy about the senbatsu overall. Surprised about Koike especially, like everyone else. Very happy that Uemura got it, didn't expect her to tbh.
     
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