TV / Radio Produce 48 (2018/06/15 - 2018/08/31)

Ikr

Just look at Twice & Blackpink. Their vocals and dance are meh (Blackpink's members are above average dancers but are bad singers, while Twice in general sucks at singing, althought not as bad as BP imo)

Sure, there are groups like GFriend & Red Velvet with excellent skills, but somehow that doesn't really matter anymore (or else GFriend would've been literal queens of KPop rn. My poor yeojachingu babies T--T)

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@honeyNUT - strongly disagree. They are on completely different levels. While members like Sayanee or Iwasa Misaki might be better dancers/vocals than them, almost every single member in 48G won't be able to win against any K-pop idols. Yes, maybe Twice and BP aren't the strongest groups compared to other K-groups (which, btw, I disagree with), but they are on a completely different level than 48G, and H!P as well. I am not familiar enough with E-girls to comment on them.

 

I think people need to move away from the narrative that KPOP groups are super talented, amazing singers/dancers/performers/variety talents etc etc for this reason. Yes you definitely do get the odd group here and there that are amazing at everything (DBSK and KARA come to mind, and more recently Seventeen and Gfriend), but then you also get groups who aren't necessarily amazing at what they do (like groups mentioned above) but both types are still popular. It's simply about who appeals to the general public more. Who cares about how well you can sing or dance, if you're BORING no one will give a damn about your talents. TWICE aren't boring, which is why they get away with the lack of vocal ability in comparison to other groups that debuted in their time. I think JYP has hit the nail on the head with TWICE, but SM and YG are still trying to figure out that you don't need the immense talent to be the most popular groups out there (though it helps, in cases like DBSK where their career took off based on talent alone, but times change and so do consumer values).

JPOP is the same but the narrative is the opposite way around. People think most jpop groups are untalented and fresh out the womb in terms of skill, but there are many groups ho are really talented. The difference is, Japanese idol companies (and fans) are more aware that you don't need talent to be popular. Acchan wasn't the most talented member of AKB but she was undisputedly the most popular member during her time in the group. Sasshi definitely isn't the best at singing or dancing but she's managed to be #1 three years in a row. While we do have groups who are very talented (LDH groups for example), they're not as popular as other groups who dominate the jpop world (Johnny's for example lol). Put them up against LDH (e-girls, exile tribe) and you might have a problem but in general, KPOP idols have the upper hand in terms of talent because the industry focuses on it more, but as groups like TWICE are now showing, you don't really need talent to get big.

All that being said, I would definitely like for the final lineup to have a balance. Girls from both countries who are talented, and some who are not, but are interesting enough to make you want to support them. As long as they have a catchy song, they will be popular in both korea and japan.

 

I think it was "ME" late last Spring who predicted that after the Summer of TWICE (& subsequently Black Pink) invading Japan that the IDOL Game would change forever....and look who hitched his wagon to KPOP? AKI-P (oh my God right?- lol). I have stated numerous times that it's NOT "K" or "J" (or "C" Chinese) POP- it's "IDOL Pop" that people want! - AKI-P might've invented the current "Idol Culture" - but JYP 'PERFECTED It'- as in made "IDOL 2.0" (and Yes, there is still room for improvement).

So now let's ask is "Produce 48" going to be Japanese rules or Korean style Idol rules.
KPOP takes the "BEST" of all the moving parts & makes "1 super Group" so a Produce 48 group would be composed of "1 Ace" (leader), Power Vocal, 1 (or 2) Dance Machine, 1(or 2) Rapper, 2-3 lead vocals, 1 Visual (Beauty who can atleast Dance & Sing), 1 Maknea (the cute little sister but usually the default youngest member).

Saynee, Jurina, Suda Akari, Ryoha Kitagawa, Komiyama Haruka, Haruppi, Sakura Miyawaki, Okada Nana, Okappa, & maybe Rika Nakai (or Ikumin "team 8"). Are all well rounded enough to survive the KPOP trials - THEY will Not be on the Show but this is a Synthesis of AKB's talents expressed in KPOP form- Everyone is Pretty, varied aged - Dance Powers, Vocal powers, Visual (Gravure Potential), & Girl crush. Yes, some groups have a designated "Danso"- AKA "Girl Crush".

For those curious what a Korean Idol Survival show looks like Here is the 1st Ep of "Sixteen" (JYP ent.) It was the 1st of this Concept of KPOP created from Trainee's competing. While "Produce 101" is what AKI-P is collaborating w/ it borrowed from "Sixteen" & "Idol School" borrows from both...plus, it's easier to follow "16 girls" & learn the Idol terms & criteria. Link below

Spoiler

if the video does not show watch the video here

This is NOT Impossible. The lead vocal of TWICE (created by JYP) was a 10 year Trainee in her 20's. Only 1/3 of the younger than 18 were chosen. Tzuyu Chou was the youngest & wasn't even a Korean (Taiwanese). Dahyun & Cheayoung were 17. The 3 Japanese were 18-19 & 1 of them was a trainee for only 1 year (but had many years of Dance training prior)- Mina the Ballerina. The others are in their early 20's (now closer to Mid-20's).

When We think of Japanese Idols we think 13-17 is prime & KojiHaru being 24-26? as a Grandma. In KPOP 18-22 is more or less Prime. Many groups disband before the girls become "too old". The closest approximation of AKB in Kpop is probably "OhMyGirl" - pretty, bubbly, syncronized dance, but melodic & smooth songs.

BEST thing about "Produce 48"- it WILL BE SUBBED as long as KPOP fans are into it. It won't be yanked off YouTube because the owners of rights to KPOP generally ENCOURAGE Fan-Subs. AKS & Sony ban, delete, harass, & Isolate Fan Subs in America in the last 2 years...where did that get them?? Now KPOP is invading Japan.

HoneyNut gets it - it's not "Better or worse" - It's a different level of performance. Like College Musical production of "Les Miserables" - vrs a Touring Company made up of Broadway Understudies & professional Singers/Dancers. It's Production Level. Sayanee & Yuko Oshima probably "hold back" so they don't blow their teams off the stage- BUT, they inspire girls to get BETTER. What girl in AKB (other than Jurina) has that Fire in her?

"Prod 101" didn't just lead to I.O.I. - Chunga-HA was immediately snatched up as a Soloist (& later debuted to much success). PRISTIN debuted (which was comprised of girls from "Pledis" on 'Prod 101') Waki Meki has former "Prod 101" contestants...PLUS, I.O.I. got a crap ton of Product Endorsements Spring & Summer 2016.

It's more of as Farming ground to showcase & Experiment in Real-Time. Case in point- LIPBUBBLE's Hanbi was trending all over Naver (recently) because she crushed it on "The Unit" & jumped a bunch of Ranks (to #2?) on the show. I only know this because almost NO One's heard of LIPBUBBLE. Hanbi looks like the FLASH moving next even Jurina- lol. Oh Look at that...

Spoiler

Here's a clip of it - lol. Get Used to V-Live kids as Kpop & Jpop merge & Yes, they ENCOURAGE Fan-subs http://www.vlive.tv/video/50361 the Twin-Tails are trade-mark actually. THIS is what's called Fan-Cam.

"Produce 48" will probably force JPOP & KPOP into newer Idea's - Newer Stars?? AND then...you guess it- AMERICA INVASION!! 1st Anime/Gaming...next IDOL Pop culture invades the West - Be Very Afraid!.

 

MR removed exist for a reason and that also goes to show the high demand for a “perfect” performance. The thing is that with a strong choreography, it’s impossible to execute the vocals and dance perfectly without any flaws. The closest girl group right now (that I know of) that does “perfect” performances are Gfriend with Red Velvet coming very close. Even if it’s Twice where only some of their members are unstable, they’re still often bashed upon. Anyways, in relation to the videos above, which one(s) are you talking about? The MAMA performances or there were some others?
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I don’t know about other Jpop groups but H!P (Momusu in particular) aren’t that good of singers either. Voice, some are decent. Techniques, little to none.
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The point about being dance trained differently, I completely agree. Most 48G girls learn dances (especially theater performed songs) through videos or through other girls. It’s only new dances where they’re actually being taught. Even so, they are just copying the dances. However, with Kpop trainees, they’re taught the foundations first before actual choreographies. In PD101 Season 2 with Cube(?) trainees, they did the arm wave for their showcase and the other trainees were commenting that it’s normal training for them. All Red Velvet (except our main dancer, Seulgi lol) members can also do a split.

 

This whole Jpop - Kpop comparison in this thread generally what can we expect from Kpop thread as well, also when the project finally airs. What irks me in these kind of discussion is how people seems "jerking" on the idols' ability to make their decision to stan are most logical/reasonable decision ever. I don't know if there is a place for that, but most of general forum/sites in Kpop will bash you wholeheartedly when you give a critical piece of mind about their idols.

That's one of the reason I still like to read Jpop groups threads. They are calm, but mostly also open for critics. Produce 48 seems can mix both discussion culture, atleast in here.

 

Are we really going to use LDH as an example tho, 80% of the group doesnt contribute to the song

 

I don't think Avex will send its trainees away to AKS or CJ E&M.

You sounded clueless on K-pop.

No one needs to speak 5 different languages.

Almost all Korean survival shows had foreign trainee barely speaking Korean. Lai Guanlin in Produce 101 S2 landed on Korea 2 months before he joined the show and ended up in the final 11 and debuted. These foreigners were at disadvantage as they couldn't communicate with the coach and their teammates but, it's not impossible to win. Also, if the show is planned to have many Japanese contestants, likely, they will have interpreters to translate into Japanese what coaches say and everything about the rule/ regulation. Thus, it will be easier for the Japanese.

Also, the concern can be easily wiped out if there is Japanese quota, if Mnet sets how many Japanese girls will it be in the final roster. Japanese girls will only compete among themselves although in Korean environment.

3 Japanese members of Twice are doing very well in Korea. Political tension doesn't seem to hit them.

It's been reported the end product will be a permanent group.

The Korean won't say "Uh. UZA is cool!". This concept is not very welcomed in Korea. There are girl groups of "girl crush" concept now and then and none hit big. However, possibly, it will rile foreign K-pop fans up. But, a successful girl group should do well both domestically and internationally, UZA won't be released unless the group has been established.

Only these 5 girls (maybe + Haneul who was not present in MAMA too) are trained together and privatized their social media accounts.

Nah. The music sounded off because Mnet enhanced the live voice. There are videos where the voice clearly sounded breathy of off-key at parts. Also, this show was created on a different concept, contestants of no training background could join (and all but one were eliminated).

Funny that you mentioned Kara as the group was viewed as "average" in term of skill/ talent. Even the so called "talentless" Twice is of far higher level of talent to most 48 girls. No group of 48's average level can succeed in Korea. There is acceptable minimum standard. Yet, yes, "character/ charisma" is a key factor.

AKB48 has many elements resembling its precedent so, I won't say Aki-p invented J-pop "idol culture". Also, Twice and AKB48 base off different premises. (K-pop idol system mostly is shaped up by S.M., not JYP.)

Sixteen was not the first of such survival show, the first is the show out of which Big Bang was formed. Also, before Sixteen, there was Mix & Match.

Now, BTS is invading the States. It has been on American Music Awards, Jimmy Kimmel's show, Ellen's show. Still, it doesn't look possible for cutesy girl groups to be relevant there.[/QUOTE]

 

@welp well you sound illiterate if that’s what you understood from my message.

Where tf did I say that anyone had to speak 5 languages?
I said that having girls from different countries (SK, Japan, and the other international SG countries if they’re allowed) is a mess.
Sure, there was a foreigner last season and he got to the final. Wohoo good for him.

The whole political thing was meant in case they make the girls compete according to their nationality.
As in SK vs Japan or whatever.

As for UZA, I meant Kpop stans (like you and all the Twitter fauna), not Koreans themselves.

Bye Felicia!

 

Completely agree. There is a very visible difference of average skill level between Kidols and Jidols. Not that k-idols are super talent (tho alot of individuals are) but J-idols esp 48G and H!P do lack basic skills (esp in singing which they have tiny to none singing techniques). Even LDH, which are amazing dancers but they only have a few vocalists with the majority being glorified backup dancers (which is pretty safe to assume that they cant sing since if they can why dont they)

 

I brought up Avex because they have skilled singers and dancers (ldh, egirls, faky) and it's not like theyve never had anything to do with 48g before given that Diva was signed to Avex.

anyway, it was just my thought, not like its gonna actually happen, just fun to imagine

^
mte
most of this thread has no effing chill

 

You sounded ignorant now. There have been already survival shows of contestants from different countries and viewers had no problem enjoying it. (Sixteen had 3 Japanese contestants, 1 Thai contestant and 1 Chinese contestant.)

Viewers were highly aware 3 contestants in Sixteen were Japanese, the show underlined Japanese bond yet, it raised no political issue (and, 2 of 3 won by popular vote, another was hand picked by the agency's chief). Lai Guanlin was in that survival show during the THAAD dispute yet, he won and debuted.

Yeah, Inter fans will love UZA but, mostly western fans who contribute less to K-pop than Asian fans who prefer cheerful/ mood-lifting concept. Also, without strong follow-up, they will be displeased and tune off. (Like what happened to CLC when it released Where Are You? after Hobgoblin.)

I kinda follow the Thai girl group of Yoshimoto and saw that they were trained by NMB48's dance trainer (Akira) who made them do flexibility and isolation practices. So, this is why NMB48 seems to have better dance skill overall?

Actually, existing oversea sister groups already facing similar problems to what being discussed here. BNK48's members addressed they had to dance with more power and sync to better please Thai public.

 

Eh I think Twice is so average today, they aren't as good as Sixteen era. Unstable vocal and basic dance. Fortunately they're improving a bit when Likey comes out. Before Likey, even I trust that NMB can do better than Twice.

Twice accepted well, become hype, and have big (and over radical) fandom in a short time because Sixteen and JYP, then cute members, then easy-listening songs that everyone can listen or dance it. Just like us, AKB in KFC era, right? Lol. Mirror effect.


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Umm, BP are literal queens in live singing along with RV, GFriend and Mamamoo. Have you heard their MRs? They sing like their actual CDs. And I honestly think they're better singers than they are at dancing. Twice are known for being very unstable during their lives and they don't really have a legit main vocalist by Kpop standards so they get bashed a lot.

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In Kpop idol standards, you must have a certain strong point. It's either you're a great singer, a great dancer, a great rapper or you're full of charm. Some of the K-idols have two of those qualities and some but very rare, all. The closest to being your usual Kpop idol is Sayanee. But tbh even her vocals is not enough to make her a main vocalist.

 

BP is much better than twice

 

Isn't the THAAD thing with China? Guanlin's Taiwanese.

And yeah i mean look a GFriend slayin here and there until FINGERTIP and from there on everything went downhill

Ummm honey no. Sure, some might argue BP is better, but not much. They're still on the same level with Twice, and only wins againts Twice in the rap department. For singing and dancing, they're not that far off.

Gurl Jihyo's more legit than Rose. Jisoo's a stable singer but Jennie sounds like she's trying too hard, and we all know why Lisa always raps.

Yeah, i've heard their MR or else i wouldn't be able to judge them. Putting BP up there with GF, RV, and Mamamoo is a disgrace to Buddies, Reveluvs, and don't even get me started on Mamamoo.

 

Super late but just noticed this thread was up here. Definitely going to try following Produce48! Really feel like this show will be super entertaining and damn do I enjoy the mess that usually comes with it! Just praying that the group itself will find success once they start promoting!

 

BP is average tho, its just that Twice is subpar.

YG artists overall lacks singing technique, they rely on the fact that they born with a good voice. SM on the other hand have a VERY solid training system, their techniques are very strong

 

Sayanee is on a completely different level compared to the rest of 48g anyway. A lot of people used to comment that she is like BoA. This is why I avoid generalizations like 'Group A vs Group B', because they are made up of individuals.