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Single Sakurazaka 2nd [BAN] (2021/04/14)

Discussion in 'Sakurazaka46 News & Releases' started by minaeshi, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. techizaka

    techizaka Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2019
    Oshimen:
    Oozono Rei
    I'm all for Hono center. It's only fair for her to get her shot given her popularity. Something that highlight her charm would be best. Sakurazaka is still finding their colors so they really have nothing to lose at this point by trying

    I personally still dont like seeing 2/3 of the group getting 3 sec screentime in a MV. I'd be fine if sakura8 privilege means getting featured in every song in a single but not hogging 1st & 2nd row everytime. Something like this would be so much better even if they keep the sakura 8 and 3 centers:
    - 4 MVs per single
    - 1 MV for main song with sakura 8 1st & 2nd row. Senbatsu members in 3rd row
    - 3 MV with 3 different centers but the formation is mixed, giving better exposure to 3rd rown girls. 1st row should also have more than 3 people.
    With that, sakura8 and senbatsu advantage is kept which will motivate the 3rd rowers. 8 girls would be featured in every song so the strategy to make recognizable faces would still work. And above all, 2/3 of the group gets more exposure which will make the single overall more exciting (be honest after 6 single of sakura 8 & friends, new faces getting more focus & exposure in a MV would feel like fresh air to all of us)
     
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  2. Dill

    Dill Next Girls

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2017
    Oshimen:
    Techi
    @techizaka you add units and a show for 3rdliners in there and I completely agree. Also, I'd leave Sakamichi projects like Zambi or Borderless to them as well and find more outside jobs for S8, so to help each member, no matter her position or popularity to make experiences along the way.
    No one should be left behind.

    I don't care about the center but some position in the 8s looks already settled to me. For some I kinda agree, but it's a small number (2 lol)
     
  3. miwa

    miwa Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2019
    Oshimen:
    Sasaki Mirei
    Honestly I wish they'd just ditch the Sakura Eight concept completely. I'm so tired of S&F experimenting with Keyaki/Sakura, first with the eternal center and now with S8. It's not like they can't manage an idol group normally (see Hinatazaka). I'd like a Nogi style single, with senbatsu, under, generation, unit songs. And Yuipon should get a solo.
     
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  4. ukifune

    ukifune Under Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Where you stand depends on where you sit. I like Karin, so the more Karin the better. But I like a lot of other members, too...all in second place, lol. In fact, there's no 2ki member I don't like. I apologize, but there are only 3-4 1kis that do much for me, at this point. My loyalty factor is pretty low. The members I feel loyalty toward have pretty well all graduated.

    I don't see the point in "giving" members songs to be "fair." Building a fan base by personalities and excellence seems more important. The group's performances on CDTV were outstanding. Sharp and exciting. I think one part of this group's excellence is dance: the group as a whole and individuals (Runrun, Karin, Ten-chan, Yui, Takemoto, Habu, Fuu-chan, Koike, Hikari...). Almost everyone is pretty good. As for personalities, there are many: Hono, Oozono, Oonuma, Masumoto, etc., in addition to the dancers. And beauty abounds.

    Many suggestions above seem reasonable, however -- finding ways to spread the screen time, and making popular individuals like Hono and even Oozono more prominent in some way. I personally would like to see longer shots on each member, like in idol "dance" PVs. And longer wide shots to see members' whole appearance and movement. But I simply do not want yet a third version of Nogi. I don't need SaiMajo again, either, but something new, please, coming naturally out of the members' personalities and talents.

    My opinion may be ignorable, I admit, since I'm not really a fan of the traditional idol in general. Keyaki caught my attention for a reason: something new and a bit real. Winking and smiling fake come-ons do little for me. I'd rather see the members' own emotions, or emotions acted to match lyrics. Personal opinion.

    On a lighter note, some great animated gifs from CDTV, by a Japanese poster:
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    EDIT: Watching the gifs, the idea of a Karin-Yui double centre serious song just occurred to me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  5. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Future Girls

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    I do get your point here. I guess it's because of how things turned out but hey, the remaining 1ki went through a lot too to be where they are now. They deserve a chance too, no matter how much interest you've lost in some of them. 2ki are good, of course, but anything, which i hope does not happen, can happen to make you lose interest too. I'm not asking you to fully accept but kindly see them openly and not by however makes you lose loyalty in them. They deserve it, especially after they remained after lots left to help the 2ki.

    Apart from that, thanks for the gifs. The last one surely wins lol
     
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  6. tzatziki2

    tzatziki2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    I've got a hunch the current Sakura8 setup is going to be around for a while. Because it still looks like Aki-P's same formula he's used over and over for his idol groups. Picks a few favorite girls to be the heavily pushed members to dominate the singles, MVs etc. while treating a large proportion of the members as being there to just fill the numbers.

    I don't think there is a "typical" J-pop style or standard, there really is a lot of variety out there in Japan. Maybe you meant typical J-idol standard? But there's a lot out there besides the Aki-P ecosystem, it's just that they often don't have the big budgets, big promotions and big business connections like Akimoto and Sony provide to make them become a big name.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
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  7. ukifune

    ukifune Under Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Thanks for this. I have been trying to keep an open mind and to enjoy what I see, and usually succeeding. I do have sympathy for all the members. I have known the 1kis for a long time. I have watched the first introductions on KeyaKake many times. Great every time. So were a lot of those early shows. The first athletic meet. The hidden camera the next September....

    I also appreciate the 2 disagrees, 1 dislike and 3 likes to my post. I'm not trying to convince anyone, just unburdening myself of my feelings, in hopes people might find them interesting and have reactions. All those ratings were reasonable and valid. I keep learning and feeling.
     
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  8. Maeda_Toshiie

    Maeda_Toshiie Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2020
    I like this comment at the Guzen no Kotae video:

    森田ひかるが「勇気」を謳い
    藤吉夏鈴が「愛」を謳い
    山崎天が「希望」を謳って行くのかな☺️

    Morita Hikaru sings about courage
    Fujiyoshi Karin sings about love
    Will Yamasaki Ten sings about hope?
     
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  9. ukifune

    ukifune Under Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    The new Hinatazaka MV passed a million YouTube hits on the first day, whereas it took BAN until the third day to get there (Nobody's Fault got there on the second day, I believe). There may be extenuating circumstances, but it appears to me that Hinatazaka is now ahead of Sakurazaka in popularity.

    Hinatazaka's Meet & Greet sales are much better, too: after only three sales periods, Hinata has 17 of 24 members sold out. At this point, Sakura's BAN Meet & Greets had 9 members of 25 sold out. Of course, we won't be able to compare real CD/online sales until near the end of May, when the Hinata song is released.

    The Hinatazaka MV is outstanding, as an MV. Its the kind of fluffy song and happy-happy presentation I'm not that fond of, but idol fans in general may feel differently. And it is definitely a strong MV. Hinatazaka is establishing a recognizable style for itself. Not one I like that much, but a definite style that appears to be popular.

    Hinata's 2nd and 3rd singles sold less well than its first, but single 4 moved ahead. This 5th single seems poised to climb more. Now it's time for Sakurazaka to establish a personality and do the same. Excellence alone isn't enough, at least not yet. I expect that the continuing series of good performances on TV will keep building the brand, but I really hope the next single is something special.
     
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  10. Philosophy Senpai

    Philosophy Senpai Next Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Location:
    Athens
    Oshimen:
    Saito Fuyuka
    I couldn't agree more to @ukifune. However, I may see things from a slightly different angle:

    I am really happy about Hinata girls... I still consider them part of the beloved body of Keyakizaka, part of the history of the group that was unfolded after my acquaintance with Keyaki, so I feel intimate towards it.

    It saddens me to see Sakurazaka being the 3rd among the Sakamichi groups, after a glorious past in which they reached a point where they could rival and even surpass Nogis but I have a strange belief (which I admit here for the very first time, risking a lot of flames against me) that it was Hiragana's good karma that Hinatas now are so succesful and (seemingly) so happy. I have the strange feeling that Keyakis never accepted their kouhais (especially the 1st gen of Hiragana) and there never was any bond or warmth between the two groups. I believe that the 2nd gen of Hiragana really saved their 1st gen senpais by dragging them out of a vicious circle of depression and low self-esteem (self-fed by the relations of the two groups and fan-base). I really do not know what happened these 3 days at Budoukan and Hiragana was finally pulled away from the abyss, but I thing the 2nd gen brilliance and freshness contributed greatly.

    I rejoiced when Hinatazaka was formed. These girls needed aknowledgment and a better future. The reciprocal routes of Keyakizaka and Hinatazaka (one falling the other rising) left a bittersweet aftertaste to me. Sad for the former, happy for the latter. However, I believe that what happened to Keyakis had to do (even a little bit) to that karma. Keyakizaka needed to plunge into their own Purgatory to be redeemed (of any possible - I repeat: any possible - negative treatment, explicit or implicit, towards their Hiragana sisters)... As for the Hinatazaka girls, well, I think fate owed these sunny days to them, at last!

    Hinatazaka songs are not my taste... Except for a few ones (and some old Hiragana songs) I prefer Nogizaka repertoire to theirs. Keyaki and Sakura songs suit much more my personal tastes. However, they are the true variaty queens among the current Sakamichi groups and I will always support Hinatazaka...

    As for our Sakura girls, I hope - no - I am certain, that Sakurazaka will rise again to the top. They have reached perfectionism in their presence on stage or MVs, now they need to establish their unique style and character and, as @ukifune said, the best things are yet to come...
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  11. turbogig

    turbogig Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2020
    Oshimen:
    Habu Mizuho
    I'd just like to add that at this Kimi shika already has more likes than BAN, despite having less than a half of its views.
    It sure tells something about the state of the fandom.
     
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  12. Iamyoung

    Iamyoung Future Girls

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    We love hinata. Glad their songs, MVs, m&g are doing great. They are at their top now. Afterall they are in their 2nd year. As much as we are glad for them, Let's not forget too that keyaki has been there too. Let's embrace that. They are starting something and yeah, it's difficult. But they are still reaching somewhere, even with lesser views, likes, whatever. I feel like we are solely focused on their material growth than their actual journey here. Let those having the glory have it. Every idol group deserves it and hinata is there now. Keyaki has been there and for sure, Saku will be too. Once all the confusion snd unforgiveness is left behind.

    The girls need the love. Ever since the rename and kouhaku, i have seen how wotas of other groups, even akb48, push hinata than sakura, since saku was invited and not akb48. What we are dealing with is a whole lot of fans who have risen up in what i call vendetta lol. Akb for kouhaku, ohisamas for hiragana. I see how on twitter no one mentions the hate ohisama gives Saku but once a saku fan does, its all over. Most Hinata fans hate saku. Add nogi and those akb fans. Saku fans have just some fans cheering them up. So we will see these things happening.

    I saw in hinata's mv comments how they are cheering the all-senbatsu but they insulted it in keyaki. They praise the bond in hinata but they call keyaki's fake. These are the fans we are dealing with. While we have saku fans cheering for hinata due to hitagana era, most hinata fans aren't for saku. So there would be a difference. So bringing all these things up aren't somewhat fair given the circumstances.

    Ohisamas are proud so we shld be too. I know most of us are down but we shld. On BAN video comment section i see how jp fans congratulates the girls for every increase of views. Yet here we are comparing. Ohisamas were on the moon when a hinaai episode rating surpassed the others, but last episode of soko saku surpassed all the others yet we saw nothing. We have been pushed to be silent since everything we say is a form of hate (we're practically the silent majority lol), but we need to praise the girls too, on every little thing they achieve.

    I hope we see the girls for who they are and what they are doing, notlooking at mgmt of course, and cheer for them. Let them know we are here, cos my heart aches to see all these.

    Sorry for the long post lol. Got emotional. Its all just too painful
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  13. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Location:
    Indonesia
    Twitter:
    toomuchidea
    Should be noted that in keyaki, they push techi as "absolute ace" and let her center for 9 single straight (+ coupling songs, so techi centered like what roughly about 16 songs?), and with a concept (?) that focuses so much on "protagonist", giving the center (techi) the most focus in MV and performance in general (i.e hitsuji MV). there's a reason there are people who say keyaki is / was "techizaka" or "techi and her backdancers" (and even the members said they felt like backdancers, if you watch the main docu movie and interviews)

    In hinata, even from the start the mv screen time is roughly equal, nao is relieved from her center duties and passed to miipan (album), then now katoshi (5th single). they also might have different center for coupling songs. their choreography also doesn't put the center as the main the same way keyaki was

    When you compare it like this, it's clear that hinata's all-member senbatsu is better because it's more equal and give non-center members a chance to shine
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  14. heatsignature

    heatsignature Future Girls Wiki48 Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2014
    You summed up my thoughts perfectly. The girls need the support now than ever, yet so many people in the fandom are so determined to look upon the new accomplishments negatively because it's less than what was done with Keyaki. Honestly I wonder if you guys care about the group themselves or the bragging rights and sales numbers that come with it? Like compare the comments after the Kimi Shika Kattan MV and the BAN MV was released. It's almost laughable after some great reactions, we immediately fall into the same circle of negativity and writing thinkpieces of why Sakurazaka isn't as popular as before. We don't have to blindly praise anything, but how is the group supposed to gain more fans when the fandom continues to go around with a dark cloud above our heads.

    And I totally agree with @Iamyoung a lot of wotas from the other groups are looking upon the group with disdain too. There's such thing as competitiveness but it's obvious that there is a vendetta against the group. There was an NMB fan on Twitter who was happily welcoming intl Sakurazaka fans after so many were unfortunately turned away at meguri, you check their profile a few weeks later and he's gleefully cheering the fact that AKB's single outsold Sakurazaka on Oricon twice over the past week (ignoring the fact that it's because of meguri resale rounds but... whatever).

    Celebrate the little victories. Ten becoming the first member in Sakamichi history to become an exclusive ViVi model is huge! And at the age of 15 she could be a solid presence in the fashion industry in the years to come. Members are getting solo appearances on various TV programs which increases their visibility.
    Celebrate the fact that the Guuzen no Kotae director acknowledged a fellow international fan after her interview on songs of Tokyo. The members know the international fandom is here (even if the mgmt doesn't want to acknowledge us yet).
    What we can do to show appreciation for the members is use some hashtags on twitter, stream their songs on Youtube and wherever you listen to their music. Promote them on TikTok or whatever. Don't take their previous successes for granted.
     
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  15. DelicateEmpress

    DelicateEmpress Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2019
    Oshimen:
    hirateyurina
    Keyaki has always been seen as the "villain" in many other groups' wotas' eyes and now they pass the same negativity onto Sakuzaka. Keya/Saku and their fandom can never do right in those people's eyes and honestly I've kinda become numb. Do your best to only focus on your oshis/group and give them the best support you can, give industry leaders reasons to keep granting your oshi/group opportunities. Antis being loud mean they still see your oshi/group as a threat
     
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  16. miwa

    miwa Upcoming Girls

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2019
    Oshimen:
    Sasaki Mirei
    I agree with what you guys are saying. Especially with how people treat Keyaki/Sakura fans. I've seen ohisamas and Nogizaka fans being incredibly shady towards Sakurazaka and no one bats an eye, but god forbid Sakura fans say anything even remotely negative against Hinatazaka (like how the biggest Hinatazaka translator went after a Keyaki fan after she said she wasn't a fan of W-Keyaki, quite obviously referring to the song, and intentionally misinterpreting her comment making it into a "Hiragana yet again being bullied by the big bad Keyaki fans!!!" or that one Hinata fan hating on Yuuka while praising NGT's Kato Minami which is just ludicrous). I'm sure there are ohisamas who dislike Keyaki/Sakurazaka and are rejoicing right now. Personally I like all three Sakamichi groups, and although Sakurazaka is my favorite I also love Hinatazaka and I feel no need to hate on anyone involved.

    I already predicted weeks ago that Hinatazaka would do better than Sakurazaka, no one should be shocked. I'm not annoyed at their success, what I'm annoyed about is the difference with how S&F is managing both groups. I'm not saying Hinatazaka's success is solely due to management, the girls have certainly played a big role in that, but the difference with how the two groups are being handled is baffling. I understand that S&F is learning from the mistakes they made with Keyaki but they seem to be applying this knowledge only to Hinatazaka. A senbatsu of all members is impossible for Sakurazaka right now (way too many members), while it seems to be Hinatazaka's focus to the point that I wonder if they will even introduce senbatsu at all in the future, but surely there's a better way to handle formation beside Sakura 8? Either way I wonder how things will go for the third single. If things are still the same, then S&F is truly hopeless and I'll start to think they have a grudge against the members lmao.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
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  17. Philosophy Senpai

    Philosophy Senpai Next Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Location:
    Athens
    Oshimen:
    Saito Fuyuka
    I was about to post this in the Fuyuka Saito thread but I think it would fit here as well...

    Sakurazaka is still like a wounded bird. An eagle with a broken wing that is gradually healing. A bird of prey that is starting regaining their strength and confidence. Soon it will soar the skies. As for the antis, we know the story: This proves how good these girls were, still are and will continue to be.

    However, Sakurabanashi with Fuu-chan and Pe-chan made me realize how deeply these wounds are... Apart from the first rather hilarious part where Fuu was trying desperatetly to make Pe speak (or at least say something), the situation became quite serious once Fuu-chan decided to take the whole thing on her own and made it a semi-monologue:

    That brave hidden captain uttered what many 1gen girls would like to say if they could: Keyakizaka is the only group that lost members without a proper farewell, that lost members because of reasons that apparently are different from the ones we know and which we may never learn, that lost members because of some kind of attrition, unique among the idol world. She also implied that the whole rebranding thing may not have been so positively accepted even now after half a year and that it may have made (some) girls reconsider their being in this whole thing [not so irrelevant but until the previous SokoSaku I had almost forgotten that Muu-chan is still in this group]. I believe that this feeling is to an extend shared with the 2nd gen girls simply because most of them were among the greatest fans of Keyaki and they wanted to become part of Keyaki so much. Their dream was realized but cut short abruptly and brutally...

    I am not sure whether this hostility from a part of the fan-base is one of the causes for this or one of the effects. Apart from jealousy due to past glory, it seems certain that many fans are repulsed towards Keyaki (and Sakura) because of what had happened, because they do not want to stan a wounded bird. If this is the case then this is one of the most cruel attitude towards an idol group. It transcends negativity, even hostility, it becomes maliciousness...

    To wrap up, I've said before that no matter how happy SokoSaku episodes are, I see melancholy in the eyes of many girls. I am sure that this is, to some degree, lament for the past, but to a greater degree an expression of their passion and longing to make Sakurazaka great again whilst they have to fight their one and only great enemy: the passing of time...
     
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  18. iroiroiro

    iroiroiro Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2021
    Oshimen:
    the 3rd row
    I was thinking of putting this in the general thread but I think it fits better here. I was reading the members' BAN profile cards, and I thought their answers about what their favorite song(s), music, or artists are were quite interesting, especially because I think an artist is happier if they make music they enjoy themselves first. I compiled their answers, in case anyone is curious:

    Uemura: various
    Ozeki: Silent Majority and NiziU
    Koike: Concentration, Guuzen no kotae
    Kobayashi: Omottayori mo sabishikunai
    Saito: Futari Saison, Omottayori mo sabishikunai
    Sugai: Hikaru Utada "Beautiful world"
    Habu: western music
    Harada: NiziU
    Moriya Akane: Vanessa Carlton "A thousand miles"
    Watanabe Rika: Disney
    Watanabe Risa: NiziU
    Inoue: Naze Koi
    Endo: Omottayori mo sabishikunai
    Ozono: 10gatsu
    Onuma: Eccentric
    Kosaka: Saishuu no chikatetsu ni notte
    Seki: Naze Koi
    Takemoto: Mr Children, Creepy Nuts
    Tamura: Ed Sheeran, Shawn Mendes, Official Hige Dandism, Spitz
    Fujiyoshi: Guuzen no Kotae
    Masumoto: Guuzen no Kotae
    Matsuda: Concentration
    Morita: Sakurazaka no uta
    Moriya Rena: BAN, Sakurazaka no uta
    Yamasaki: Sakurazaka no uta
     
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  19. turbogig

    turbogig Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2020
    Oshimen:
    Habu Mizuho
    Yep, that was quite an interesting and insightful conversation or rather a monologue. Gotta hand it to Fuu-chan, her kind of blunt and straightforward way of speaking really helped to offset Rika's usual passiveness. Of course, they are not allowed to reveal the inner workings of the group too much, but that sneak peek will suffice. Despite what Sokosaku tries to portray, it ain't all sunshine and rainbows. I really like it when we get to see the more humanlike side of it all. Come to think of it, getting to vent out the feelings like that on camera might actually help to get the group unstuck. I know it did for Habu. Remember the legendary mozzarella cheese game and how she managed to steadily grow after that? Let's hope that S&F will not shy away from showing us these geniuine moments in the future.

    Speaking of Uemuu, I believe that coming from a wota background (and continuing to follow other idols) she has a very interesting take on the group as whole. I'd definitely like to hear more from her since the last time she spoke freely was on January 4's Yuugata Paradise (such a shame they axed this radio). As a matter of fact, all of the members have their own unique perspectives that we haven't properly seen yet, so I eagerly await any future projects that involve them expressing themselves in new ways. Just get them something to do S&F, please. They'll manage, just don't ignore the group.
     
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  20. ukifune

    ukifune Under Girls

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Wonderful serious of posts. So much good info and food for thought.

    Hinata sings sunny but not deep. Keyaki seemed deep but not sunny. Sakura is finding its place. I'm happy to see three members saying they liked GuuKota, in that fascinating list posted by @iroiroiro. I am more and more impressed by the group's dance tightness and expression. In any case, despite all that I am about to say about Keyaki, I think we have to look at Sakurazaka as a new group beginning, and not think of it as Keyaki's shadow.

    I don't think it was just paranoia that I felt many idol ota simply hated Keyaki, perhaps partly because it was not doing what they thought of as idol music, but also because they felt (rightly, I'm afraid) that some of us who were wholehearted Hirate fans felt that she was superior to mere idol music. This was insulting. Karma, indeed. I ended up agreeing with them that a perma-centre who was so dominant just couldn't work for an idol group, in the long run. But wow, what a ride for the time Techi soared. And she is now taking off again, I hope.

    I've always felt that Techi was depressed by the feeling that she was offending the other members, but she couldn't get out of it except by falling apart. And I think some of the other members were depressed, as well: first by Techi's dominance, then by her emotional and physical decline. I think there were lots of stresses and resentments in the group, but the members stopped short of speaking them openly. That's just an impression, and of course I could be wrong, but that's what I felt. Perhaps it's ironic that the group's chant, encouraging humility and mutual bonds, was composed by the members themselves.

    I've often wondered what would have happened if the Hiraganas had agreed to join Kanji Keyaki after Neru left them, and if the Keyakis had accepted them. As it was, I think Hirate could see that other Kanjis didn't want them (and maybe she agreed), while Memi and others were determined to make Hiragana work as a group on its own. It didn't really start to work as a popular group until the outstandingly talented 2gens came in, bringing with them an un-Keyaki-like atmosphere (as I saw it). I myself kind of disliked some of them, but nevertheless recognized their superior ability. As idols in a more traditional style.

    As for Sakura having too many members for an all-member senbatsu, by my count Hinata has 22 members (the original Keyaki all-member number) and Sakura 25. Not a huge difference, and maybe one that will shrink.

    EDIT: Uemuu is fascinating. I'm glad @turbogig mentioned her. She's so pretty that I've always wondered why she was not more popular. In the SokoSaku GuuKota and elsewhere, she has taken to staring mildly but intensely into the camera, making direct contact with us who are watching. It's a bit eerie, but somehow powerful.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
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