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The Stage48 Rules 2019

Discussion in 'Announcements & News' started by Cristafari, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. Lusankya

    Lusankya Next Girls Stage48 Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Location:
    Germany
    Oshimen:
    Okabe Rin, Omori Maho
    So far imgur seems to be really reliable so I always use that. They also have easy to use functions to post preview images in all sizes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. dutchie

    dutchie Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2016
    Location:
    オランダ、アムステルダム
    Oshimen:
    峯岸みなみ
    I'll look into that, I just remember how you used to be allowed 1Tb(?) free storage in flickr ... then flickr was sold on ... and everybody got an email that if they didn't change to a paid subscription they start deleting images ... and it being my (second) backup ... I was not amused

    and it was of course an e-mail telling all of us how much better it would all going to be ... yeah, right .. end rant
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. hiroto

    hiroto Next Girls

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    Location:
    Republic of Catalonia
    It is very painful to lose images of idols is like erasing history. :(
     
  4. innosu

    innosu Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2017
    Location:
    大阪
    Oshimen:
    小嶋真子
    New question:

    Most of the time, Jijipress/MadDiGi usually upload some short cut of concert/etc. on their YouTube which were removed a few days after. However, I have previously downloaded such video, put a subtitle on it, and posted it here.

    Now, as is norm, later those concerts get released on BD/DVD. Do I need to go back and remove those content (as it contains contents from BD/DVD), or is it fine as is?

    Follow-up question: if the previous case is allowed, are all contents that get streamed *before* the BD/DVD release allow?
     
  5. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Location:
    Saitama, Japan
    Oshimen:
    Iwasa Misaki
    Twitter:
    Cristafari
    In my experience Jijipress only posts short clips and highlights, not full songs or big portions of the concert. If you are posting it as a YouTube video, then fine. I don't really care. However, please avoid posting it as a download link.
     
  6. innosu

    innosu Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2017
    Location:
    大阪
    Oshimen:
    小嶋真子
    I have posted it as streamable link (which you guys seems to deemed it as a download link) before (specifically, Kojima Mako Graduation announcement) because I put a subtitle on it. It was before the new rules come in effect though.

    So going forward, posting YouTube link to Jijipress is okay (which will be dead soon anyway), putting subtitle on it and put it on streaming site is ok, but downloadable site (i.e. GDrive/Streamable) is not okay?

    There are a few cases in the past where it happen like this though, and it might happen again. For example, 14th Gen stage (2017.03.26) was streamed on DMM, which should be postable by the new rules (as long as no download link was provided), and later was released on BD/DVD. Is such content allowed? Is such content allow only before the BD/DVD was announced? Do we need to go back and removed contents?
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  7. mai48_

    mai48_ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2014
    Twitter:
    maiakikochan
    A link to a view-only video of a radio rip of a song reveal was deleted in an IZ*ONE thread, so this got me thinking the following,

    The second point says that "view only" videos are okay, unless the content are purchasable or they were illegally obtained. Radio program aren't exactly purchasable usually, right? Or is it that recording a radio program considered illegal? If embedding a "view only" video of a radio segment is ruled as forbidden, maybe because there is the potential of people having the knowledge of extracting audio/video file off the "view only" video, then wouldn't it apply just as well to any performance video in tv programs? I'm aware that the rule said that the exception is only for tv programs, but wouldn't a video be more... valuable, I guess, than a still picture with audio playing in the background (given both are not purchasable, of course)? So allowing the latter would be much easier than the former, would it not?

    I mean, let's say, a tv performance has video content of the girls dancing and the audio content of the girls singing. The tv program itself isn't purchasable. And so view only video of that tv performance is not forbidden. That's case one. Then a radio segment with the song playing has the audio content of the song, the radio program itself isn't purchasable and by the recent implementation of the rule, view only video of the radio segment is forbidden. That's case two. If I try to weigh the points of the two cases, case two is less severe than case one, and yet case two is forbidden while the other is allowed. I mean, as far as I know, wouldn't radio programs simply have similar standings to tv shows? Both aren't exactly purchasable, usually. Or is there something about radio rips?

    Then there is the rule that allows posting pictures/magazine scans, while acknowledging that they might be copyrighted, because the forum has not faced a problem with it before. Not that I have any problems with the exception though.

    Or to put it simply, "view-only" videos of tv show/showroom/lod and pictures of magazine scans and photos are the only exception and are allowed?

    I don't know, just some points I would like to throw out here.
     
  8. Mana

    Mana Under Girls

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    I saw that in the IZ*ONE thread too, and personally I didn't feel that the rules implied that. But if it does, I think mods should consider changing that rule to make it less strict. I believe radio rips should be allowed especially when it's just a Youtube link.

    First about Youtube, it isn't a site for downloading. Surely there are ways to download things from there, but you have to go out of your way to find some program or site. Youtube itself has no download button, all you can do is stream. and even more when the video is just embed like here on the forums, most people will simply click, listen and then discuss.

    Now about the content of the video, radio rips are to me no different than Tv shows, you can't buy them. You can watch shows on Tv or listen to the radio if you're in Japan, but not for us international fans, so we have to watch them online, it's the only way. it's not the same as, for example, a single or DVD that international fans can buy. Someone here listening to the radio rip of a song is the same as a random japanese person listening to it through radio for free.

    About the possibility of people downloading the radio rip audio through a Youtube link, again they would have to go out of their way, but most importantly, I doubt very much that someone would actually want to download and listen to a radio rip of a song, the quality is just so bad, if someone wants to get a song illegally, they will get the better version when it's available anyway and not the radio rip that is in really bad quality.

    Lastly, Youtube is a platform where agencies easily block content that is copyrighted so if AKS has an issue with the audio being on Youtube, they will take it down themselves. and eventually it will happen, but as long as the audio is available, it should be ok to allow it to be posted here with Youtube. For example I found some uploads of Sustainable's full version (radio rip), but right when Sustainable Mv got released, those uploads of the radio rip got blocked by AKS. I guess in the case of IZ*ONE's b-side, it will get blocked by the time the single is released, or maybe before, or maybe never? No idea but if AKS has an issue, they will block it eventually and it will result in a dead link on the forum, but until then if AKS allows it to stay on Youtube, it should be ok to leave it there for people to simply listen and give opinions, which is the same thing that all japanese fans do in Japan for free.

    Just my opinions about this!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. innosu

    innosu Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2017
    Location:
    大阪
    Oshimen:
    小嶋真子
    I don't know what happened in IZ*ONE thread, and I am not the admin here. From what I gathered from the previous two posts, I believe the linked was the radio-rip of the song? If that is the case, when I asked if I can re-posted a content from Eizosouko that is also released on Blu-ray to view-only site, I was explicitly told No.

    So I believe a song-only radio rip fall under the same category, because it is still a purchasable CD content even though it has been aired on radio.

    Unless it's the non-song part that got removed, then feel free to ignore this post.
     
  10. mai48_

    mai48_ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2014
    Twitter:
    maiakikochan
    How about this, what if a group perform a full song, with no modification in any part of the song (just the same exact whole song as released as singles/albums/whatever), on a tv show, would then a view-only video of that performance be forbidden to embed?

    I would have think of those AKB48Show performances, but the show has already ended, so can't exactly use that example. But just as a question, going forward, would such view-only video be forbidden to post on Stage48?

    Because if a full song radio-rip view-only video is not allowed to be embedded, then the scenario it would also be forbidden to embed view-only video of a full song media performance. Because the problem is the full audio content, right? Which is available for purchase.
     
  11. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
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    Saitama, Japan
    Oshimen:
    Iwasa Misaki
    Twitter:
    Cristafari
    To clarify a couple things...

    I consider radio shows to be the same as television shows.

    I do not consider YouTube to be a download site. I know that with a streaming site, when there's a will, there's a way. But some sites offer a direct download option. Those are the sites we are talking about.

    By the way, some of the questions I am seeing are unnecessarily complicating the issue.

    Something else to consider....

    When we were first discussing how to go forward with the downloading/piracy rules, we were originally going to be even more strict about it. The main reason being is that the more exceptions we make, the more confusing the rules become. Moreover, it inspires a never-ending search for loopholes in the rules by some users. However, I knew making the rules too strict would cause considerable backlash, which is why we have what we have. Which by the way is not that much different from the previous rules, only more clear.

    At the same time, continuing to ask "What about this?" and "What about that?" might be good for clarification, but it really is only causing the rules to become even more strict. Personally, I feel that people already know the answers to most of these questions, but they are searching for exceptions or loopholes. You are shooting yourself in the foot by doing that. Just sayin'
     
  12. innosu

    innosu Stage48 Moderator Staff Member Stage48 Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2017
    Location:
    大阪
    Oshimen:
    小嶋真子
    Since I asked quite a number of clarification (some of which I haven't got any answer), I want to say I honestly don't know the answer. I used to think I know, but since I totally expect a short-cut of Making from BD/DVD to be okay, and it wasn't, I am not assuming anything anymore. (Actually, I no longer post any subtitled of anything here anymore because I wasn't sure about the rules)
     
  13. Mana

    Mana Under Girls

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    I thought about it again and hm... I can't think of any forum that has rules so strict and it made me wonder. I don't think this is good for stage48 considering these forums are already less active than before and we shouldn't let it die. I completely agree that download links shouldn't be allowed but now I'm wondering, Youtube links should be allowed, regardless of the content. Like I said above, if AKS has an issue, they would just block/remove the content from Youtube. I mean they do that all the time so it's not like they aren't aware. and stage48 (or any forum) will never be taken responsible for what is uploaded on Youtube.

    So I feel that it shouldn't be against the rules. especially things like radio rip, a short cut of a making of, a performance from a concert... I mean, it makes no sense to think that everyone should buy the whole DVD for every concert to see one performance, right? I understand that a link to the full concert or a link with download is totally not ok, but a Youtube upload (stream-only) of a short part of a DVD content, it doesn't hurt anyone and it's actually more of a promo tbh. if there's an issue then AKS will deal with it with Youtube, if there's no issue then I believe it should be allowed to be posted and discussed here.

    I mean it will completely kill the forum if the only videos we are allowed to post are things uploaded by official channels, knowing how official channels in Jpop literally barely upload anything... what I'm asking here is, is it necessary to be that strict on stream-only videos, does it actually hurt the forum, would it hurt sales, does it affect anyone. For me the answer is obviously no, in fact I believe it helps to 1) keep forums alive (and they need it), 2) help to promote a DVD, concert etc. that people might then want to buy to see the full version, 3) help to promote members, that people might then become a fan and buy content.

    I'm just giving my point of view, but I really hope mods can re-consider the rules because I really can't think of any forum or site (reddit etc.) where they are being that strict about content and ban anything that shows even a little part of a DVD, or things like radio rip (that no one would download to begin with).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. dutchie

    dutchie Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2016
    Location:
    オランダ、アムステルダム
    Oshimen:
    峯岸みなみ
    grrrr .... I must have jinxed it ..... look at my profile pic, that service just shutdown ... and instead of notifying people via an overlay on the image ... they did in only on their site .. and now the grace period is over ... bye bye image
    :rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant:
     
  15. Mana

    Mana Under Girls

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    @dutchie Your signature is gone too btw, it shows a different image, you might want to edit that. I checked tinypic site and they said that they'll shut down, and they actually notify people through the images: "Because we are an anonymous hosting site and therefore cannot provide notice by e-mail to our users, we have opted to replace all hosted images with a temporary message directing them to this notice." it also says that they shut down on 16th September, if you have an account, you can still go save your pics by logging in, until 16th September.
     
  16. dutchie

    dutchie Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2016
    Location:
    オランダ、アムステルダム
    Oshimen:
    峯岸みなみ
    I checked yesterday ... and it looked closed already ... but there turned out t be a 'close message' link at the very bottom of the page :/

    but I of course either never registered for an account or just forgot the password

    Resetting the password gives this: Error! Unable to send lost password E-Mail. Please try again later.
    (so I guess I just never registered)

    ah well, I'll better search the original (which is on a computer that's turned off of course :/ )
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  17. bonjourmarlene

    bonjourmarlene Under Girls Wiki48 Editor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    Location:
    UK-AUT
    Oshimen:
    小林蘭
    Twitter:
    curioushitomi
    I had a question regarding these two points.

    Especially now that we have (ex-)members in K-Pop groups (Honey Popcorn, IZ*ONE and Rocket Punch (and once Takeuchi Miyu debuts in Korea, another one)), it's becoming more and more common for lyric videos to be uploaded to youtube and for them to stay there. It seems rather rare to find a full version of any 48G b-side on Youtube, but it is really easy to find IZ*ONE or Rocket Punch b-sides (see screenshots)

    izone.png rocket punch.jpg

    Where do you draw the line? I could simply choose any of these links and put it in any thread (assuming it's on topic). It is not a download link because Youtube doesn't have a download function like a Google Drive, for example, and it's impossible to tell whether the audio was illegally obtained by the uploader (was it downloaded from somewhere else or did they buy the CD and import it to their computer? Or did they stream it and illegally record it?).

    I also understand not allowing google drive or zippy share or whatever links to download radio rips, but Youtube is an entirely accessible website and watching Youtube videos is not against the law anywhere, as far as I know (except maybe North Korea but I seriously doubt we have any North Koreans on this forum), even if the video gets taken down by copyright claims; the only person at fault is the uploader of the video, but people sharing a public video from a legal website is not illegal so I don't understand why it's against the forum rules to share audios from Youtube. Especially since 1) radio rips are usually not the best quality because either someone talks over the audio or the sound quality is poor or quiet and 2) Youtube doesn't have a download function, so it's not a download link.
     
  18. Cristafari

    Cristafari Stage48 Admin Staff Member Stage48 Admin

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
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    Saitama, Japan
    Oshimen:
    Iwasa Misaki
    Twitter:
    Cristafari
    to answer the question posed by @bonjourmarlene

    1) This has already been said, we do not consider YouTube to be a download site. As far as I know, there is no download button or feature.

    2) As far as what is allowable content to be linked on this forum. We do not want purchasable content (i.e. DVD concert rips, DVD extras from single/album releases, Image DVDs, etc) to be linked here.

    3) As for K-pop, we are aware that there is a lot of K-pop content uploaded to streaming sites like YouTube, and it seems the K-pop industry doesn't have a problem with it. And frankly, we haven't really paid much attention to that content, assuming that there isn't an issue. Now that doesn't mean that K-pop is a 'free-for-all,' we expect people to exercise good judgement. That said....

    and don't take this personally @bonjourmarlene , this has been going on long before your post.

    I think for the most part you guys know what is acceptable and what isn't. And my concern is that a lot of these questions are merely a search for a loophole. So I will once again give you guys fair warning, all these "what about this? what about that?" questions are really only going to result in the rules becoming more strict. I'm not saying none of the previous questions are valid, but I think in some of these cases if you think it through you will come up with your own answer. In fact, this has already happened at least once. Someone brought something up that we probably wouldn't have even noticed, but since it was asked asked we had to say the content wasn't allowed based on the rules. So in this case (K-pop content) the same rules apply that apply to everything else.

    Pay less attention to the specific wording of the rules, and pay more attention to the SPIRIT of the rules.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  19. bonjourmarlene

    bonjourmarlene Under Girls Wiki48 Editor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    Location:
    UK-AUT
    Oshimen:
    小林蘭
    Twitter:
    curioushitomi
    I'm asking because I don't understand why posts are deleted when someone posts an audio from a b-side from Youtube. Sorry if answering the question over and over is a nuisance for you, I must have missed previous discussions.
     
  20. richardesu

    richardesu Kenkyuusei

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2015
    Location:
    Guatemala
    Oshimen:
    ikutaerika
    Hi! so...torrent links are forbbiden? :huh:
     

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