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ZOMBIES: Troublemakers?

Discussion in 'General JKT48 Discussion' started by too much idea, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    the thread's sinking the thread's sinking
    :sup :sup :sup
     
  2. KageTora

    KageTora Kenkyuusei

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    LOL. Let it be. Just follow the flow.
     
  3. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    it's just .. not fun
    this thread used to be a great place to discuss with various tension :hmm:
     
  4. KageTora

    KageTora Kenkyuusei

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    I hope my analytic tendency is not the reason that this thread become less 'hot' than before :) I personally concern about the phenomenon since it contains potential threat as well as opportunity. I actually plan to write an article about it to shed some light to this dark place few of us dare to explore.

    My latest hypothesis is :
    " Segregation of fans into certain class mirrors the chronic problem in Indonesia : Social injustice. As JKT48 impact begun to spread beyond certain circle, this phenomenon is to be expected. The impact of JKT48 is so wide so that it affects not only certain limited group of people - AKB48's fans, J-fans (or whatever you called them), well educated, wealthy, civilized, well-mannered, etc - but also the general population - including those who didn't know AKB48 or J-pop, less educated and/or less fortunate, brutish, impolite, etc. Like it or not, such wide impact put us together with those we'd rather not engage with - fellow countrymen that we'd otherwise neglect. "

    Perhaps it's a good time to question ourselves: ' Aren't we strangers in our own homeland ? '. It is a question for us to be responded, a response that will determine the future of JKT48.
     
  5. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    this.
    i sometimes feel something like this. 'Who am I ?' 'What do i do here ?' 'Who are these people ?'
    living in this country for a long time, observing every news in the radio, in television, doing activities daily, meet another new people each day, resulting me to know the most indonesian people's behavior and personality and their way of thinking.

    WHICH IS DIFFERENT with mine.
    It seems like my personality don't fit with most of my friends-who are the same as me, 48 fans.
    Synchronizing with this thread, and your hypothesis, these "class mirrors" are true, real and visible publicly, which is caused by these difference of social class.
    mostly, high-knowledged and well-known class are dominated by rich and modern people with a huge chance to be known by the girls.
    mid class dominated by normal fans. likes 48 but not that much. it's like "yeah i like them. i'm going to the theater. she is my oshi" and that's it ---- like me.
    low class dominated by poor-knowledged and a few relationship. some of them don't have any guts to join with the mid class or even the high class-which makes them stay with their knowledge and become a 'mocking' object by those who are above them.

    and if these low-classed people -who don't have the guts have a bad behavior and personality -which i often meet daily, (we can connect this with our last discussion here) could become what we call zombie. spreading false rumors or making some idiotic fanbase-which is not necessary at all. they act as admins and instantly become the 'high-classed' people in their own vision. the real high-classed people may think they are retarded or something like that.

    now, something like this is what makes me to think what you think, "Being a stranger in my country".
     
  6. abaone94

    abaone94 Kenkyuusei

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    So the point is that a general problem of a national scale (social injustice) which had been miniaturized into the fandom [think] Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

    Also, noting something from Kris' quote above:
    That means the problem of accepting others for what they are is the potential to further widen the gap between each fan. Again, correct me here.

    If both of your statements are joined, then I can conclude that the real thing that prevents JKT's growth is the ability for the "unders" to go up, and the "uppers" to help them climb up, because of the clear segmentation of our society. Unfortunately, most "unders" are new fans who doesn't know about 48 thing at all, so when they come to like JKT48, they are barricaded with the few "upper" fans treatment towards them and viewed the entire fandom as "bad". There is also an opposite condition where these "unders" barricade themselves from the "uppers", and thus they become a so-so all-knowing fan. It gets more complicated from here.

    However, one solution I can spat out now is: view everyone as equals. Whether he is poor, rich, famous, known by member, forgotten or anything, let's just view them as our equal in one hobby: JKT48. It is a good thing if JKT is a "uniting" factor of all those classes aren't it? Also, let's be more open to everyone who is interested in, not interested in, disliked, and hated JKT48. Help them love the girls and welcome them with open arms.

    That is my own solution to this problem, and I tried to do it ever since I ever thought about it. And because of that, I don't see anyone as either 'zombie' or 'skyman', but in the same level as me.
     
  7. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    this is what we hardly find in indonesian fandom.
    everyone want to be on top, and see others like slave.

    =====
    yesterday i and some of my jkt fans friends were doing a school assignment, one of my friend opened twitter and found a really ironic thing.
    and then a friend of mine laughed and mocked the fanbase's admin. i don't know why but he seemed to be making fun of it.
    =====

    i totally can't understand with these kind of personality :hmm:
     
  8. KageTora

    KageTora Kenkyuusei

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    I was writing response to @krisnandikaji last night when storm started and I had a blackout :D.

    This is not a simple matter so I try not to oversimplify while at the same time not to overwhelm this discussion with so many things at once.

    @krisnandikaji
    You are not alone. In fact, such feeling of alienation is a widespread symptoms of the modern world - especially in this Information Age. It is even more understandable within the context of our unique country.

    This alienation issue alone will make a super long post, so I guess I'll address it later when it show its relevance more as we arrived at deeper question .

    @abaone48
    Exactly what I mean, the problem of our society is somehow miniaturized to our fandom. The cause is because of JKT48 impact is so wide, not only to certain 'elite', but also to the 'mass'.

    There is one sharp difference between AKB48 and JKT48. AKB48's debut performance was in their small theater with only 7 non-staff non-media attendances. JKT48's debut performance was on a Nationwide television. Which mean, the routes that each group took is sharply different.

    AKB48's first struggles was to gain recognition. It took 2 years for them to have their 1st Television performance debut. Throughout the process, the fandom have enough chance to mature and ready themselves to face the advent of new wave of fans. I assume that the social condition in Japan is sharply different from that in Indonesia that the clash between senior fans and new fans is somewhat eased.

    JKT48 skipped that process and started directly from the stage where AKB's popularity started to boom. That means there are some level of immaturity and unreadiness in the fandom - even among the 'skymen' - to deal with the advent of the new wave of fans. The social condition in Indonesia somehow contribute to the difficulty of this booming fandom to be managed.

    Some might then conclude that JKT48-and-its-fandom's struggle is a lot easier than AKB-and-its-fandom's . I don't think so. While AKB48-and-its-fandom was like a youth when they dealt with the challenge, JKT48-and-its-fandom is a child when they deal with it. It will be a lot different if they started it just like AKB48, but it's too late now to regret. Like it or not, we have to deal with the challenge. We, as part of JKT48 fandom.

    I strongly agree that equality is the one of the ideal condition that this fandom should aim for. Yet, we are still in progress and some stages are required to reach that ideal. With that ideals in mind, what we need now is a formula for transformation - a set of behaviors that help the transformation progress. Respect is one good point to start with. Applying the right approach to different kind of fans is another. Sometimes we need to scold, sometimes we need to praise. Sometimes we need to encourage, sometimes we need to criticise. Each of us have our own roles in this struggles. Make sure that those roles can work in synergy.

    @krisnandikaji
    and what approach we need to apply to such fans? ;)
     
  9. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    lol no wonder you took a long time to post [hehe]

    so it's not just me myself then. 「relieved」
    and again, i agree with that. if we continue this all by just 2 of us, it's going to be so fucking long.

    =================================

    i'm not quite sure what to do -_-
    first, i don't like someone like that, but
    besides he is my close friend. i tried to scold him in a "bestfriend" way, but he sees it as a joke.
    no wonder, actually. because i and him are two idiotic living things on earth, being cold like ice if we aren't together. but crazy like hell if we're at a same place at a time. :hmm:
     
  10. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    lately it seems that the fans are getting separated into 2 (3) sides. the one who wanted to 'destroy' the differences between senior and new fans and the one that insisted that it was needed, including the 'sepuh' words (and the one that just stands and watch, following the flow)
     
  11. KageTora

    KageTora Kenkyuusei

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    ^Different perception is inevitable, it is the condition of freedom of thought. It become a problem if one side try to close the gate for communication and insist on dealing with the situation with what they see fit with their own thought.

    Let's imagine that those who are trying to draw a line between classes of fans are 'wall builders' while those who are trying to destroy the differences are 'wall destroyers'. The wall builders want to create their version of sanctuary for the girls and keep those who can't follow their way of thought outside. The wall destroyers want to see the girls but the wall hinders them to do so. What will happen are clashes between group of fans, which in turn might damage the girls too.

    If the wall builders succeeded, what I imagine is JKT48 become exclusive, expensive and unapproachable. Wall destroyers might still try to find a way in, and wall builders will be busy making the walls thicker, rendering more difficulties for new fans to enter. Imagine if there is another group, that is less exclusive, less expensive, still approachable, where will those fans who still outside the wall go?

    On the other hand, if the wall destroyer succeeded, there will be another problem. Will you share the theatre with another fans who is brutal, foul-mouthed, anarchic, will readily bring you into a brawl when you show a hint that you are annoyed by their behavior? No sane people would pay for such experience.

    We need walls, but we need also gates. We build wall to keep unwanted behavior outside, but show a gate to get in through accepted behavior. What you describe in this post viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4749&p=667765#p667765 is a good example of building a wall while showing a gate.
     
  12. Yuki88

    Yuki88 Kenkyuusei

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    I think that the case of "Sepuh" is a common thing, a culture perhaps, in Asia. We're taught to respect those who are older than us. However, with our exposure to western culture, the people starts to think more differently, that respect doesn't just mean for older people. That would explain this:

    I'm personally annoyed with how the new fans who pretend they know everything without decent research on the particular matter and spout whatever they think is right. We can see this kind of fans in all fandoms, not just 48 Groups. These days I would just laugh at every single nonsense those kind of fans spitting. Quoting what my father said back then: "Just ignore those who pretend they know everything if they won't listen to us."
     
  13. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    ^
    a very nice quote!

    those people says that nogizaka was a rival created for JKT rofl
     
  14. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    wtf kind of statement is that ? :hmm:
     
  15. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    lol don't ask
    honestly, the current JKT is no match for Nogizaka
     
  16. zetha

    zetha Kenkyuusei

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    LOL :hehe:
    there's so many definition of zombie that I never know :hehe:
    however imo zombie in my definition is they who act without even using their brain
    you know since zombie only think about their satisfaction (to eat) :hehe:

    not long ago I experiencing another zombie annoyance at RKJ show
    start from the waiting list queue
    it's rare for me to go to theater so I don't know if this happen all the time
    I arrive at around 5pm and immediately queue for the waiting list ticket
    I'm so lucky that I still get the queue and behind me is a Japanese fans that become the last one (wow :XD: )
    the cass or the security said that the japanese man is the last
    queue for that day is close and he told the other fans who secretly try to sneak behind the queue to leave :^O^:
    however when BINGO time, the security went inside to do their job checking the fans bag
    at that time the zombies start to act
    they sneak slowly among the row and rush forward
    suddenly beside me that should have no queue row, there're a group of zombies :blink:
    since behind me is a japanese fans
    he could only watch them and shake his head
    I'm really ashamed... :(
    fortunately he is a japanese and he got a far ticket queue [shock]
    the queue row suddenly become an arena of survival like when people urging for groceries :yikes:
    and again fortunately I still get the waiting list ticket :tongue:

    now it's the main part of that day survival :XD:
    I get inside and sit at the most left - middle part
    so at my right side is another sitting fans while at my left side is standing zombie :tongue:
    everything went normaly, you know...chant, mix, etc :XD:
    until the part where 1-2 member come to the most left part aside from the left pillar (to perform for they who unlucky that they did not get their seat and the pillar is prevent them to watch the whole perform )
    and what did the zombies do ? [wonder]
    they call them...whoever it is...they do the member call when the members still singing and dancing [shock]
    member call was a part of chant-mix I know :^^;:
    when the member MC we also do some member call :^^;:
    I think that's the time for member call :^^;:
    however...member call when the member still dancing and singing ? WTH ? :fp:
    what are your intention in theater ? to watch their perform or to tease them ? :fp:
    what worse I hear them did it like a match between the others :angry:
    when 1 zombie call and the member response, it's like he score 1 goal :fp:
    1 - 0, 1 - 0, that's what he said to his other friend :fp:
    and they do that the whole show :fp:

    oh GOD if you hear me please send me some vaccine to cure that place :fp:
    since then my mood to go for another show is ruin :hmm:
    I'm afraid that I won't enjoy my show anymore if there's still zombie lurking around at that place :fp:
     
  17. KageTora

    KageTora Kenkyuusei

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    The 100M IDR price is the financial cost you must pay to enjoy the girls' performance and growth. There are another price to pay : manners. Make sure everyone know, and pay the price. If they can't pay it, they shouldn't come. There are others that willingly pay.

    I believe it should be the theatre's authority to handle things then it comes inside the theatre As far as I researched it, JKT48 theatre rules is still far less strict than other sister group's theatre rules. Time to put more rules into the price list. They have done it at several events outside the theatre, they should be able to do it inside theatre. If they don't do it, fans should remind them its priority.

    I tend to be more strict when it comes to the theatre - it's the holy ground. Everyone should know how to behave.
     
  18. zetha

    zetha Kenkyuusei

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    ^
    unfortunately some fans that we called zombie is just don't know what manner is :p
    I'm totally agree that rather then we the fans that scold them, it should be the responsible official management
    but you know what ? the security I saw near them is only watching the perform and enjoy the show..
     
  19. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    err. i hate to say this.
    but here we are.

    most people don't have self awareness.
    where manner doesn't matter, as long as i have money, i can live. :hmm:
     
  20. A48

    A48 Kenkyuusei

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    zombies think after the pay for the ticket, they are allowed to do anything they want since they think they're supporting the members (or maybe just to satisfy their 'lust' [think] )
    their 'zombie act' often annoying other fans :hmm: or even the members
     

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