The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol world

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

^ That makes sense... you'd definitely want someone that knows the feeling of wanting to protect their family leading and planning to keep the largest amount of folks safe. But, then again, it also puts some hesitation into them as well. But yeah, I've met some special operators in many places, and many of them tend to be married.

But yeah, where I attended university, we had to be under a certain age, couldn't be married, and couldn't have children. If it happened while you where there, you were out. Those were the rules. Some people hid the fact they had children and got away with it... others were caught and expelled; that's how it goes.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

If you're gonna bust out the "cultural difference card," then it's also naive to say that society degrades and that the standards are high.
Society is changing.
There are standards.
But it's not degrading, nor is the standard high.

Also, no one is making the argument that you can break the rule. People are arguing the rule's existence.

These people are free to choose. Boxers don't have to do that, they choose to do that. They're not contractually obligated to train in gyms and isolate themselves and beat up racks of meat in the freezer.

Being an entertainer is not about belonging to the public. You don't have a public duty to them. The customer has the right to choose whether or not to believe in you, and the entertainer chooses whether or not he or she wants to pursue that. Artists can choose to alienate their fans to pursue their own ideas, which has happened many times. The same thing applies to an entertainer.

Plus, if you ask me, they're better served being dateable. Is it their duty to ensure that my wish will be met, or am I gonna be pre-empted by the majority?

I'm asking why it's so important for an idol to be banned from pursuing relationships. Certainly the rule is in place. Why is it in place? Who does it benefit? Is it correct?

If I started a business in the US and said "Everyone here has to be black, otherwise they will not be allowed," I would be sued by a million groups. Where do you draw the line on what rules are allowed?

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

To put it in plain words, as we say it here, a boy dating multiple girls is a dandy/winner, a girl dating multiple boys is a prostitute. How many boys are needed for the girls to become it changes depending on the man, it is kind of obvious that for some wotas just one is enough. And just like you say, and not only in the "idol" world but anywhere, the extreme minority is also the noisiest one, and the one that can hurt you the most, because in the case of AKB48, they are the ones that usually fill the theater or the ones that get dozens of handshake tickets for a single girl. Just look at what happened to Amina, and she doesn't even have a boyfriend (that we know of!).

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

See, the thing is if I ran a business, I would try to deal with good clients and have good people working for me. It's not all about making money and I certainly wouldn't sell my soul for my business.
As a consumer, I try to purchase and invest in things, people, and companies that I believe in. There's a lot of good people I like in AKS, and they make a lot of good decisions too. (I'm still especially touched at the Dareka no Tame ni campaign.) Overall I support them.

But there are a few things I don't support, and one of them is selling an illusion surrogate girlfriend. I don't think it's good for society, I don't think it's healthy and it reflects badly on some of the fans.

IIRC, SMAP's Kimura Takuya had a shotgun wedding years ago because he impregnated a girl. And he's still extremely popular.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

Now you understand why AKB48 gets so much hate by western audiences, why their videos get so many thumbs down in YouTube. The western audience thinks these girls are being exploited, and with that kind of reasoning.

IIRC, SMAP's Kimura Takuya had a shotgun wedding years ago because he impregnated a girl. And he's still extremely popular.[/quote]
Maybe I exaggerated with my assumptions. Maybe the machismo is too strong in Japan, so strong that it is culturally okay for a woman to share the man she loves with other girls, and at the same time it is wrong to like a girl who has already been taken by someone else.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

That's America... you can be sued for giving someone a passing glance. I forget many US laws, but if you are not a public entity, you could probably do something like that. I mean, the KKK is a large, organized group of white supremacists.

Here in Japan, I can start a business, and require that people submit resumes with their photos and I can say that I only want to hire women under the age of 28 weighing no more than 54kg with a height now higher than 165cm. I can do that as a public entity and get no flak. That's just how things are here.

But yeah, maybe my choice of words in the original post weren't the best.

Anyhows, why is the rule in place; who knows? Would it make a difference if they rescinded it right now? I really think it would (here). I mean, look at Kuroki Meisa... she isn't an idol, but rumors of her being in a relationship were vehemently denied by her and her management. Why? Because it's problematic. Why is it problematic? Because this is Japan; that's how things are. It's just like you never hear anything about people being in relationships until their married. Look at Otsuka Ai, Kimura Kaela, Koda Kumi... it's just a random bam, "we're married and preggers, brah!" The general consensus in Japan is that entertainers are there for the public... entertainers feel that way, too.

Would it make a difference if the rule was never announced. Maybe... maybe not. But, again, with how things are here, I really think that it'd still be an unwritten rule.

Would it make a difference to me if the rule was or was not there? Probably not; it's not like I'm going to go out and make these girls my secret lovers or anything. Our eyes aren't going to meet, ignite a spark, and cause us to run off on a secret tryst. Even if I were to go and visit them, shake hands, and what not, it's not like they're going to remember me or we'll become mabudachi.

They're public figures and I like their music and TV shows. I have no reason to be upset or feel betrayed because they're in a relationship.

(KimuTaku banged Kudo Shizuka from Onyanko Club... they're married with children. They're both still popular.)

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

Very well-stated post. It's part of the entertainment culture in Japan. I may not like it, but I have to accept it.

Another good case in point: The big story before this all broke was about Fukuyama Masaharu's relationship. How long has he been around, how popular is he, yet his presumed girlfriend still has to sneak into his apartment. When she got caught on film, it became front page news on all the rags.

It's not just wotas or other J-Pop fans who believe in these rules. I've talked about this with many of my Japanese friends, who are not into idols or even Japanese music. Every time I mention how I don't understand this part of the idol culture, their response is usually to shrug and say - "They knew these were the rules when they decided to become an idol. That is the price you pay if you want to be famous."

We should also consider the management POV. Once this news breaks, can you look the other way? Can you just suspend the member? What message does that send to everyone else. The sports papers already have a field day with AKB48 gossip and rumors, could you imagine what it would be like if personal relationships were tolerated even a little? What would the image of AKB48 become?

I'm sure this was not easy on anyone involved.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

I'm fine with the girls dating as long as they don't share their side story out to the world personally.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

^ have a bf? no problem.. just dont post photos or do stupid tweets about it.

Keep everything about the relationship to yourself and your partner. I don't want to know about it.


DO NOT WANT!

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

I gotta agree with Hikki on this. The rule is there for a reason. Even if my oshi Jurina do it, I have to say, she gotta be punished. When it comes to idol group, it's not about 1 person, it's about all of them from management to the girls. The management have their own rules, and the girls have their own rules.

Without the rules, just imagine the possibilities. We probably see Akimoto Yasushi or Togasaki dating one of the girls. You may think that's impossible, but without the rule, the possibilities is there. And without 'no dating rules', it's not like they breaking any rules anyway.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

@tritoch: exactly. And that's sorta the problem of young people these days: sharing too much of their private life on the net. I wished the girls were more conscious regarding their position as idols.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

@tokyolucifer: Well Akimoto did end up marrying Mamiko

Idk, what gets me the most is the fact that there are fans going after the girl's past obsessively to dig out the dirt. There's a saying in my country that goes something like "Those who look for something end up finding something" and I honestly don't see the point in doing these things. I believe that there are many girls in AKB and the sister groups who date, yet they are smart enough to not get caught. It's the same thing as whenever someone says something sexual in a TV show and the girls pretend to get all embarrassed and disgusted or whatever, it's just an act, a part of their idol job, but IMO it's often not carried along to their private life (Oshima Mai said she dated while she was in AKB, there's Ayarin and in H!P Kago Ai, Tsuji Nozomi, Yaguchi Mari, Fujimoto Miki all dated while being idols as well) and that's fine, as long as nobody finds out it doesn't matter, it's all an act anyway (I don't think they are actually thrilled to hear some of the rude comments some fans make in handshake events, but except for Sayaka they all smile and act polite even when faced with such a situation, although they might react different in their private life).

I don't think fans should be digging stuff up or they won't be pleased with the results. Let's be honest, it would be fantastic if all the girls followed the rules exactly and sacrificed their whole social lives for the sake of the group, but when you are a teenager and you fall in love with someone there's only so much you'll analyze, and as long as idol groups keep existing, these scandals will exist too, it's simply too difficult to restrain people from interacting with the opposite sex when everybody else at school is talking about it and they start having feelings for others.

The cultural aspect of this discussion is absolutely relevant, because without that environment surely these rules wouldn't exist and wouldn't be necessary to ensure the marketability of an idol group, but I still think that if the idol is going to play her part, fans should play theirs and leave her the hell alone with her private life.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

I think that's what the fans do. I'm pretty sure some of the wota even know their oshi address or school. But they don't expose it just for the sake of it. Hirajima and Yonezawa didn't play their part, so it's hard to blame the wotas. As long as the wotas didn't post their address, I'm fine with it. If they go overboard and posting the address or the names of their family, then the wotas is the one we should blame.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

^to be fair, I don't even know for sure how this whole YoneNacchan debacle started, but I do know that in ShimaRena's case it was wotas who found stuff about her.

What I mean is that an idol is a product, they are marketed as such. It sounds harsh, and they are human beings underneath and whatever but that's not what Akimoto is trying to sell. He's not trying to promote Kimoto Kanon the random schoolgirl from Nagoya, but the idol "Non" who is a member of SKE and all that jazz. I feel like there should be a difference between the idol and the human being, and while the idol should save face and giggle stupidly whenever anyone makes any comment about love in general and claim that the only time she's fallen in love was in kindergarden, the person should be entitled to do as she pleases because when she's off stage and out of the spotlight she's not doing her job anymore but living her life.

Granted this is just my opinion, since the more years I spend in this fandom the more I realize how much of an elaborate fantasy this whole thing is.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

^ I agree. It's like how every people live with curiosity toward each other but they don't necessary want to know more since everyone has their private life they don't wanna tell others about

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

I was wondering, what is the solid proof to show that one is dating someone?

Based on my limited observation, the only reliable evidence is the direct statement from the girl/boy itself. I don't know whether I am naive or not but it seems all of the cases are supported by a picture. It also reminds me of last year Nacchan's photo with a guy which was confirmed by the manager to be her relatives (?). CMIIW.

Honestly speaking, I am really confused about how those whistle blowers think. They like to dig up the past and create a sensation and most likely they have good insight about what will the effect be. I would say they are the small idealistic minority who likes to bring up their values and are not afraid to do what they think is right (i.e. reveal the info)

From my POV, if you can't repress those raging hormones and desire but the condition does not allow you to channel it (norms, contract. etc.); just make sure it is not known

Can someone translate this picture? I think it explains how this whole thing started (credit to hikaru_mutsu):

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b51/H ... etauan.jpg

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

^I think it's because they can't be fans of a girl who isn't ~pure~ (meaning that basically she can't interact with males at all, since pictures with male friends have also been problematic in the past with fans) because they think that she should save herself for them or they feel betrayed or something because she's like a girlfriend to them.

Everyone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, I've never quite understood that part of wota mentality since it's such an obviously platonic relationship to me that I wouldn't expect anything like ~*faithfulness*~ in return, but what do I know...

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

This debate can continue forever.

It is what it is... the idol "no dating" rule in Japan... has been part of idol culture for years and it's what people expect, regardless of what we think of it.

I don't like it and think it should be removed but it ain't gonna happen so let's leave it at that.

Yes, the girls are really still relatively young with raging hormones and they probably miss being a "normal girl" leading a "normal life" like their friends. But they are "idols" and chose that career so they'll have to live with it along with the "no dating" rule.
It sucks but it is what it is!

They can have a bf for all I care, just don't be naive... no... Stupid enough to publish it online or make it available publicly so it can be used against you! Their maturity.. their social skills hasn't really matured enough for them to realize that.

I've been there long ago, in my 20's... heck, I'm one of the older members of this forum and know there is a BIG difference in maturity level between someone in their late teens, 20s, 30s and 40s!

I hate to agree but I do agree that the girls need to face the consequences of their actions but... not like this.

It sounds like management wrote and published their resignations.
For goodness sake, Rumi is in Singapore! How the hell can the resignation come from her in Japan when she's in Singapore?!?! Management is covering its ass considering the other scandals that happened a couple of months ago.

Everyone should at least give the girls a chance to release some statement on what actually happened. if the girls are going to leave and it will be recorded in idol history, at least make it "official" no matter what crap comes out!

The girls are human and deserve some dignity to walk away gracefully with their heads held high. [clap]

Anyone who says otherwise... really don't understand that following rules and being a person are separate issues are kidding themselves. Follow the rules... OK! But DON'T treat them like animals but people. Give them their integrity and dignity back so they can exit gracefully! [aup]

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

Fans of the member in trouble usually try to damage control instead of digging up more dirt. It's more like fans of other members, or just people who have no stake in the girl, that try to go as far as they can. 2ch is full of trolls and each sub-community hates one another so that adds a lot of fuel to the fire.