The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol world

Considering today's recent events, how does everyone feel about the age-old restrictions on dating? Is it good for the industry? The girls? The fans? Does it hurt your feelings?

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I believe that the regulations put on idols concerning dating should be abolished. How I stated that sounds formal and peculiar considering the content, but the whole concept is kind of both of those things.

Sure, some fans won't like that their idol is dating someone, but consider when the rules were first brought out and how society has changed since then. The 80s in Japan (I believe Onyanko Club created this? I'm probably wrong.) were still a time of conservative sexuality. Years later, the (female) idol industry has clung to this concept. It makes sense: The idol can't fall in love and have a significant other so that her fans can make-believe she's there just for them. There have been books written on this "surrogate girlfriend" approach even in the West. It's smart from a business point of view: How many men can your idols attract? How can you successfully market your idols so you can get a good return on investment?

Nowadays the world is different. People are in more relationships and have sometimes even have sex. Heck, if you want AKB48 to be good role models in society, make them all get significant others and have kids, because we all know the Japanese birthrate is abysmal right now.

Even the idol climate has changed. When AKB first started, they were jumping on a train that was slowly going downhill with very few popular idol groups - all with their glory days long behind them. Now, AKB has shown that idols are still wanted in Japan and even overseas. Everyone can agree that AKB48's sales aren't based solely on wotas anymore: normal people have been buying their releases for a couple of years now. AKB really is setting the curve. They can make a change in how they do things and other groups will follow suit - look at how many new idol groups outside of the ---48 world use random letters and numbers in their group's name.

Now that the group is less dependent on sales by wotas, can't they drop the innocent, virginal girl gag? SDN48 girls could do whatever they want. Sure, they don't sell as much as AKB, but that's hardly an accurate comparison. SDN is full of older, very-sexualized girls, while AKB plays up their youthfulness. One has to wonder if marketing sexual objects who aren't allowed to have sex is really a foundation of idol culture these days.

I don't mean to be a bitch, but I kind of do... If you're a true fan of idols, you want the best for your favorites. Aside from the 1% or so of the world's population that is asexual, everybody wants someone to love and someone to love them back. To take away this basic human right is disturbing and cannot be stood for.

Also at Ebi48

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

X posted:

While I agree that the girls who break the rules should be called out on it because they knew about those rules beforehand, I hate the no-dating rule because I feel like it's stupid and it's unfair. Idols play a character that sometimes is very different from their real selves, so they should be able to just step out of character int heir personal life and do whatever the hell they want to do and behave however they want to, it's nobody's business what they do in their personal life.

I think that the pouring of scandals in AKB reminds me a bit of Hello!Project circa 2006 - 2007 when a bunch of big names got the boot because of their indiscretions in love. I hope that this helps people to realize that in the 21st century it's a bit stupid to keep pretending to live up to these double standards (and yes, I think that they are double standards because girls are expected to remain single and implicitly virgins even though they are singing stuff about sex and love).

It's also important to note that there's a HUGE chance that a lot of other AKB/SKE/NMB girls are dating currently but have been smarter about it or maybe luckier and haven't been caught, so expecting that all of them are really virgin dolls who only have room in their hearts and minds for their fans is very naive IMO.

I think Akimoto has a pretty good grasp of the situation, considering how he married an idol himself ( ) and how he's written lyrics like Renai Kinshi Jourei which is about how when you fall in love you won't care about whether it's forbidden or not (especially when you're a teenager) and one of his master pieces, Idol Nante Yobanaide, a song written from an idol's point of view about how she wants to do all the normal things the other girls do and can't pretend to be a doll all the time.

I obviously understand that they need to keep the rule in order to keep the wota fanbase and it's all directly related to how well the business does, but it's unfortunate that such a thing still exists and is enforced.

tl;dr version: Sure, girls who broke the rules should be punished for it, but IMO the rule is stupid and shouldn't exist.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

i did yes because if akb48 people started to go dating with people they will surely lose some fans
and idols have to be pure so they shouldnt date [sealed]

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

I feel like I don't have enough knowledge of what it means to be an idol in Japan . If being considered pure and a virgin is a big and essential part of being an idol than I understand the existence of a rule like this. But from a western point of view it feels a bit dated.

Don't forget that in the US you kinda have the same thing with those Disney boys/girls.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

I see both sides, I mean, I really feel for the girls but at the same time the rules are clear and they agreed to them when they joined the group. It doesn't however make it right though. I think it may be inevitable that at some point that one of the more higher up girls gets caught up in something similar, I wonder what will happen then?

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

But see how 99% of those Disney kids end up :s repression is not good for anyone (Akimoto surely knows about this as well since he wrote that song about Jung and Freud )

About the part about being a virgin being necessary, I think it's extremely intertwined with the definition of idol and the surrogate girlfriend thing too, but I feel like that's a part they play, just like their idol personas so I don't think it's really necessary (nor do I think that all of them are virgins) but just like, pretending to be one and have nobody meddling in their own business would be an ideal win-win situation

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

Not really - look at Vanessa Hudgens who was not only actively dating Zaf Efron but had even more scandalous photos appear online. Then there is Miley Cyrus - who keeps doing and saying all kinds of crazy things and her show is still going strong.

It's a cultural thing - and I understand the need for the 'idol image'. However, it sickens me that it's the fans that are digging around and bringing these things to light, and not the paparazzi and media who normally are to blame.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

Good Point! Those kids were being portrayed as pure and innocent but that didn't last long and now they're batshit crazy.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

i think it's a dumb rule.

where are our manly men who will sacrifice the fact that they could lose someone to another guy, just to maintain that door of opportunity that is chance?!

i look at stuff like nmb48 (who i believe is still largely wota) and their vote towards yoshida akari...
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a lowly 11% rejection rate, and i think she was caught having a boyfriend while on NMB48. so i dunno. maybe there's still hope.

with that said i've seen how angry fans can get so i dunno. jokes are still being made about meeting kondo rina and watanabe miyuki in their hotel room, an incident in the past causing them to get suspended from the 2nd single. yamamoto sayaka still gets crap from japanese fans on her "neet no shuushoku" failed monoboke because some saw it as incredibly insulting.

personally i'd like it if they could but just not talk about it...
but i'm also from the US where talking about which celebrity dates who can fill up tons of crappy magazines and sell for oodles of money so that's not gonna happen.

the birthrate is abysmal because they work too hard. if a woman has a kid, she pretty much has to become a homemaker. no company would take her because she can't work as much (workplace bias still exists) and her career will hit a dead end if she had any aspirations at all. it's already hard enough for them to get hired because if they pregnant it's like the company wasted resources training her instead of training a guy who can't get pregnant. they would have kids if they could keep their career aspirations.

i don't think it's possible for anyone in xxx48 to have a kid. i see their blogs and their twitters and their gugutasu's, they're working 20 hour days. no time to take care of a kid. my sister-in-law is working 0 hour days (because she's on maternity leave, obviously) and she looks noticeably fatigued.

maybe if society didn't work so hard all the time, akb48 could have boyfriends.
maybe.



also disney kids aren't forbidden from dating?
selena gomez/justin bieber rumors are ongoing, aren't they? they even make public tv appearances talking about it.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

^The pregnancy suggestion was made in jest - the girls are pop stars and very few pop stars are able to juggle their schedules with that sort of thing effectively. The idea is that they're promoting values that aren't really what Japan needs right now. (Sexist hiring is a factor, but as is the declining amount of sex had by Japanese citizens. It's true - they may work too much to keep up a libido.)

As for Disney stars, I've never heard that they aren't allowed to date.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

I really don't want to discuss Disney kids any further I'm sorry it was foolish to bring it up in the first place.

EDIT ;Damn okay. I never said it was exactly the same but I remember Selena Gomez/Jonas kids/ Miley rambling about chastity belts/rings and virginity and etc etc BEFORE they all went absolutely mad.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

of course, i would like it if society actually allowed people like them to have babies in terms of logistics.

restricting at the boyfriend level is just too much.

i do remember last year watching a music show where akb was talking about their renai kinshi situation, the same episode with jennifer hudson on it. i remember the japanese middle-aged female host of the show supported the no dating role, saying something like "yeah, i think it's important because otherwise they won't be able to sing from the bottom of their heart" or some bs like that.

i wanted to slap her so hard.

what kinda society brainwashes even their female citizens to think that it's not okay to date?!

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

The no dating rule is ultimately selfdestructive. I think they should be allowed to date. But discouraged from talking about it.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

Holding back your natural urges can lead to extreme behavior that could hurt yourself or others.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

If they are hardly an accurate comparison for sales, why would you even compare their dating rules?

Idols have always been about that innocent side. AKB48 already broke the concept with the "idols you can meet" concept, don't think they have spare room for "girls you can meet and date". Management can't control what the girls feel, but they can try to keep those feelings hidden, only flourishing while singing songs.

Sales not depending on wotas... I share that point, but I think they still represent a good part of the total sales. And it is not a self destructive rule, for every girl that gets kicked there are 10 who still keep their virginal side. There are prolly many others who are dating or having encounters with boys, maybe even drinking as underages, but it is all about the image. "My idol is hard working, pure and full of spirits, spends her nights sleeping with a bunny cap alone in her bed or with her mom, and during days she will do all she can to cheer me up." Break the illusion and the idol disappears, she turns into a common girl.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

is that what YOU want?
is that what YOU think is best, or are you just looking at it from the perspective of business?

what I want is to be a fan of some good entertainers without having ugly stigmas, wota/surrogate girlfriend being some of the biggest ones

i want people that i respect as they pursue their dreams to be treated respectfully instead of having archaic rules imposed on them, and i want them to be respected for that as well

what's the point of having this illusion anyway? who exactly does it benefit, the immature crowd?

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

My natural urge is to beat the fawk out of stupid people.... I've repressed that for decades and I'm alright.

It's a rule and you have to follow it. I don't think that it should change just because society degrades. If you have high standards, don't let them waiver.

If people are serious about their work, things like dating should take a back seat. Like athletes, entertainers, ecetera. Look at Kanada from Hannya... he takes his comedian work very seriously... he's just a serious person. Dude hasn't date or anything because he's refining his craft. A lot of athletes don't get into relationships when they at their peak. Boxers go spartan and leave their families for months on end to train their bodies for 30 minutes of action. Some of the best soldiers are those that go their entire careers without being married; they can dedicate all of themselves to their craft.

I think that's an essential part of being an entertainer (or idol). Your entire job is about being there for the public.... you belong to them. That's the profession you've chosen and you should do your best to please the people you're doing it for.

As vang_lai said earlier... they can opt out of being an idol if they want to pursue relationships.

I wouldn't even compare this to the Disney in America. Culture is just different... the lifestyle of a child star is crazy; they're exposed to things that they shouldn't be a part of. Almost any child star in America ends up being pretty fugged up from the lifestyle they live and the things they're exposed to.

Most child stars in Japan turn out pretty normal. Again, cultural differences are too great that you really can't compare the two.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

He gets it.
But no, seriously. I don't even feel like explaining my take on this now that hikki pretty much did that for me.
It's always easy to judge things from a distance. Take any culture you want; certain cultural aspects will never cease to seem anything but baffling if you pass judgement based solely on your own moral principles.

 

Re: The No Dating Rule and its effects on the modern idol wo

Benefits the business. Do you think Arashi would sell as much if they were married with children, or even divorced? Or if the AKB48 girls were in a relationship? This is business. As Akimoto said in the CNN interview, some people think AKB48 are their little sisters, some their daughters, and obvious some think they are their girlfriends who cannot say "I love you" because their mother is watching. Would the 45-50 year old guy support a girl who dates boys? Doubt it, he is looking at her as his daughter, one girl that isn't thinking about boys right now. What about the one who is cheering on them as if they were their little sister? And the one thinking they are girlfriends?

Minarun fans broke pictures of her when her scandal broke because the illusion was also broken. Why it is so hard for Ayarin to get the spotlight? Because she will always be the onigiri girl.

Would AKB48 be as successful if they broke these "archaic" rules? In Japan, probably nobody wants to know.

We could question people in these forums, why support AKB48 and not, say, some of Johnny groups? SMAP and Arashi worked really hard to get their current recognition, they have had problems and good and bad days. I guess nobody (or very few) are interested in the illusion of a boyfriend, an elder brother, or a son. But it works for a large number of women, just as AKB48 works for a large number of men.