About how casual people see wota

So yesterday i took my flight for my long awaited vacation to Japan and I sat down next to who looks like a japanese student coming back from Amsterdam to see her relatives in japan.

I started a conversation about japanese culture (Generally foreign fandom are fan of japan as a whole) and we eventually end up talking about AKB48. At first i didn't revealed that i was a fan yet and asked her what she thought of AKB. She knew them, but from a very far away perspective. Because her point of view was from someone not related to AKB, i found her opinion very interesting.

Actually that was pretty harsh. Basically, the popularity of idols in general came from a disturbance; a part of Japanese society is substituing a "normal relationship" to an "idol-fan relationship" simply because it is easier. "nerd" and "otaku" who never have been in a relationship or are socially awkward don't get out of the comfort zone by being wota and no longer need a girlfriend to feel "love".

This kind of behavior lead to the never-ending love ban rule (she is casual but she brought this topic without me talking about it). She said how strange someone can ask an idol to "not-love" because there can only be one love, for the fans. That's what Yuko calls the "selfless" love. Isn't it ironic for wota to feel "special", even though 3000 of them are lining up to hear the same thing said by the idols?

Japan especially, and in Asia, people are more bashful and reserved. But her speech, despite being a bit harsch, hold a lot of truth. The standard image of a "nerd" is still really strong in mainstream society : glasses, basket and jean, in his 20/30 and of course single.

She has been very precise about her point of view that i can't retranscript fully, and it was very hard for me to advocate the cause of AKB's wota. Because i can't deny it. I still can tell her if there weren't girls who liked AKB48, there wouldn't have been be girls who would have wanted to be idols in the first place ; as well as "idol you can see grow" is a source of hapiness that i refuse to assimilate as a substitution of a Boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.

I remember @ithebigc talking about some wota who absolutely stinked during a theater performance. I think we have responsabilities to improve this bad image people have of us by improving ourselves. Those 2 things are not completely disassociated after all. We don't deny ourselves as idol supporter, but we shouldn't think that "i don't need a gf i have idols after all" as well.

What do you guys think?

 

Im not surprised at all.
I have japanese friends who have bad impressions on akb fans. And otaku is not accepted in Japan generally.
So yeah, I would have been shocked if it is the opposite

 

I've written about this before.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4737&start=50#p548433

This is something I always say, but: it's not all that simple.

The reason for the love ban isn't just that there's people that are socially awkward. Not every wota is a recluse. Of course to most people and especially those that don't exactly concern themselves with that specific culture it's the most convenient explanation. But that is largely thanks to otaku and wota lifestyle being stigmatized by the media. Saying that idol wota are all hikikomori is just as much a generalization as suggesting that the reason for the large amount of school girl-themed porn is that the Japanese have pedophile tendencies. Things like that are rooted much deeper in general Japanese culture, values and views on such general things like love and relationships. And that's really something everyone has to experience for themselves, I believe.

There's enough wota who lead socially fulfilling lives. AKB is an act of such interactive nature that to fully enjoy it one has to socialize with other fans. A person that doesn't leave his own four walls because he's afraid to interact with others isn't cut out for that. Naturally AKB does draw people like that as well, but that's not everyone and not the people you're going to meet on the eighth floor of Don Quijote or at Makuhari Messe.

The incentives of idol followers are often misunderstood by those on the outside and especially those living outside Japan. I daresay the amount of people who actually don't date because they have an oshimen is negligibly low. That's kinda silly. Let's not confuse cause and effect. A lot of people are drawn to AKB because they aren't romantically involved with someone, but to be abstinent intentionally / to refrain from having a serious relationship is a different story altogether.

 

Wouldn't this part be a bit untrue, since the idea was believed by the one that gocchisama apparently talked while on the plane.

 

With "those on the outside" I was referring to people who don't dabble in idols. It's basically the same thing as what I said in the paragraph above that; that a generalization like that is the most convenient explanation for those that never deal with the subject. But then again there's of course no need for the girl gocchisama talked to to know any better.
Given she's Japanese she's bound to have some image of wota and of what AKB does and what he writes she said is pretty much exactly what I'd expect every other person to say. But that's idol culture for you. Not that I see a real problem there. In general I don't think it's worth it to try and change peoples' perception of something that they're not interested in in the first place.

 

The best solution to break this bad image of us must have been to let her know AKB more.
In sort, to make her one of us lol.

In the end i decided to not argue about what she said, because since i matched the profile of a "typical AKB wota", i believed i wouldn't have been taken seriously.

If i were a super handsome foreigner model, i think i could have been more persuasive ^^

 

When I was studying Japanese, I also looked for Japanese penpals to help me with my studies, and of course discussions does end up with you talking about your hobbies. So I did asked them about AKB48. So far all of them do know who AKB48 is, it's just that they don't care. Or just not interested.

I did ask a Japanese youtuber his oshi, and he said he's not into akb48 or idols, and also said he thinks their fans are weird, otaku/obsessive. But I tried to pry him to find out the 2nd time and he thought about it, and he said that if he had to choose a member then he'll pick the girl next door type Kojima Haruna.

They aren't wrong either though, since you can see those types of fans they talk about in the fandom as well...

 

Reading some comments online. Japanese girls tend to date guys with a better work high salary and stable life. Most Japanese men, find it difficult to work work and work and feed your family. With this thinking japanese men prefer to love idols, anime girls, cyber girls(miku) how do you say that?! lol. With this things happening in Japan, people labeled as wota or otaku are called to be weird, nerd, single virgins or idiots.

But wotas should also consider their future, when they get old, who will take care of them????? They should look at the bigger picture. Why cant wotas think about after the idol graduates or end of the business. Its like playing computer games, Once the game retires all of your money,time,achievements is gone. Just like that.

--out of topic--
Idols started from zero, become celebrity because of us fans. Then leave the group. Started solo career then have a relationship. Then marriage. Lucky if you got a chance to marry one of your oshis.

You can marry an idol after graduation if..
-you are rich
-you are a famous celebrity
-you are a politician
-you are a model
-you are famous in a sport (what im trying to do right now)
-you are lucky....

 

Yeah it's pretty hard. A lot of the people I know where I live say the same sorts of things and I can never deny them either.

So in the end, when I'm with them I don't say anything. If I defend it, it would never end.

 

Hmmmm so first of all, how do you differentiate a casual fan from a wota? Now that would be a good start, because I can't even define myself, and I've been on the fandom for like, 2 years? 3? I don't know, but it's also true that I never do much more than listen to their music and watch my oshi performances. I sometimes do buy a CD, but I don't even have much, I have 6 I think.
For what I know, and I don't mean to cause harm it's just the idea I get from what I read, wotas are (or should only be labelled wotas) those that buy excessively amounts of CDs just to support their oshi, like for the voting tickets and such, that DO fall in love with the idols and such things? As I said, I don't want to cause harm, that has always been the idea I had, and I have to say that I always thought that wotas were actually only the AKB fans living in Japan (because of all the reasons I said before).

Now here we have @gocchisama talking about a different kind of wota than @Weezon, so right here we can see two different perspectives from wotas? Even though I'm not a "casual people", I do think I am a "casual fan", but as I said I dunno the definition you give to wotas and how do you differentiate different scales for wotas.

I think that those wotas, those people, just confuse reality with what they think. I mean, yeah you see those pretty faces and it seems that they're all you ever dreamed of (I mean, even I would think sometimes "what if I actually married an idol?"). As said before, how can they think that their oshi loves them, when there are more hundreds wotas to whom the same oshi says the same thing, over and over?! After they leave the idol-life, they continue on with their life, and what will these obsessed people do?? I won't even dare to imagine it.

 

^ Who is the most popular act? Just wondering

I understand what is so odd from an outsider's perspective completely. Yet even so, for the fans, I don't think there is anything weird about it at all. It's a theory I have that everyone who gets this far into something like this is as a fan is using it to try and make up for something that they are missing... Or to suppress something, or something like that. To be honest I think I only recently realised my own reasons for dedicating so much time and love to the girls.
There is nothing bad or wrong with loving idols. It's just a slightly odd comfort

 

I remember a story in AKB49 about Yoshinaga's teacher when his phone ringing with ringtone Chance no Junban. Later students and even other teachers are like "deprecating" him. Call him pervert and so on. It's like a real phenomenon that idol things is like something annoying.

Moreover, Aki-p wrote few songs in wota perspectives like Enkyori Poster and Theater no Megami, which is showing the management (or Aki-p) opinion about fans. Maybe wota love his/her oshi, but finally it becomes like want to "guild" important person to you. Like your sister, you want to make her shining

I just hope that each wota can have their "up and down" with idols, so they can see new perspectives seeing idols. I think when you like something and really deep into it, until you can't see other opinion, it's quite harmful.

 

I echoed this statement. This, IMO, sums up almost everything.
(No like button so -.-)

 

I don't know why anyone should be concerned about how others see their fandom. It's not like you can actually change anything. Stereotypes will always exist, whether it's about AKB48 fans or fans of Harry Potter or Britney Spears. I don't know why people like to talk about 'them', the crazy, creepy wota so much. To me there's just fans of AKB48 and we're all part of that. Yes, some are more obsessed than others and spend more time and money on it, but they're still normal people like you and me. Of course there are some who go to extremes, but that's not something exclusive to AKB fans. I mean, there are people walking around with Justin Bieber tattoos, undergoing surgeries to look more like their idol, breaking into their house, getting restraining orders and whatnot. It's not like 'crazy fans' only occur within the 48 fandom. I think the relationship that many fans have with their oshimen is actually quite extraordinary.

 

Yeah, they're probably the biggest idol group still though.

 

Again, I agree with this. AKB may be ahead in terms of Oricon CD sales, but in most other rankings, unfortunately AKB is losing out. That includes average Dvd/blu ray sales, for examples. And their soundscan figure (aka CD sale without theatre edition) is lower than that of Arashi.

Who cares about sales and ranking rite? But another annoying fan is fan who always brag about their idol being no. #1 in Japan EVERY NOW AND THEN. A l ot of international AKB fans guilty of this, especially new fans from certain country, to the point that it irritates other Jpop fans.

Indeed, one should not really care about how others perceive the group. However, it also should be noted that most of the time, it is the fans who enforce and created those negative impressions. Thus, we really should try our best as fans to behave well on net (not force people to like AKB, not to brag all the time about being#1 idol group, not to spam photos in irrelevant Jpop communities, etc) as well as on the real life (I heard from my friends that some JKT fans behave so badly during music shows and around JKT theatre that lots of shops near the theatre complain about it). Who cares about whether we are a wota or not? as long as we behave well, we will still have the respect. Even if we are casual fans, when we behave poorly, we wont get the respect as well.

And again, AKB is not really biggest jpop act group now (except in terms of no of girls and Oricon CD sales)

 

As I became older and wiser, I realized that when people don't like you, it's not because of your hobbies. It's because of your social skills. The hobby is just an excuse to stereotype you and cut you off based on that.

None of my Japanese friends have ever looked down on me for liking idols. Some think it's hilarious. But again, that's because I know how to portray it and that I believe that I'm generally a decent person (I hope).

I'm no longer concerned with my own personal image, because I can deal with it. When I think of smelly old creepy wota, it doesn't matter what their hobby is, they'd be smelly, old and creepy in whatever other hobby they'd take up, because they lack the basic social skills and the hobby has nothing to do with it, really.

 

That is so true it almost hurts.

 

When people ask me why I like them I usually bring up football. How is it that football is so well considered, to know the names of all the players, to know who kicked what and who scored when... but to follow a Japanese group is weird? Why? Cause I was curious enough to dive into the net until I found some music I actually liked? They usually agree lol

Other people inmediatly assume I read manga and watch anime. I don't. I can watch some anime here and there, but their way of telling stories bore me to death (waaaaaaaaaay too many flashbackes, and I had enough with LOST), so I just stick to the music. It's a much more dynamic market where many things are happening at once (the 48 groups, Hamasaki trying to stay relevant, the K-pop wave coming and going, the indie scene with Ayaka, Ikimonogakari, etc.) while the western charts are always waiting for Rihanna/Spears/Gaga/Beyonce/Perry to come up with something (and when they do, it's a let down).

Dunno if I'm off-topic or not, sorry for that lol
In any case, many of my friends know about the election and some have said they want to watch it with me (if streamed...) to try understand the fus around it lol