[GENERAL] The Sakurazaka46 / Keyakizaka46 Thread

Sometimes first impressions are right on the money: I (we?) knew that Ten-chan at 12 years old had big potential and would be big. On the other hand, I really didn't think much of Karin early on: Lanky and odd-looking. But Karin evolved into the cool cat we now know, reinventing herself every so often. So, my first assessment of her was wrong.

BTW, 4ki will be featured in the "First Showcase" at Ariake Arena, but we'll have to wait until June 12...

 

Agree

Ten is a burnt child that looks innocent. But her raw template is what people in fashion want.

I dont follow sakurazaka since beginning, just notice them after aaa performances, which is why my fav pick at that time is hikaru, ten, karin and hono. Later I found rena interesting too. But if I see karin's old self, she looks odds, so I doubt I will pick her. But after reaching puberty and good styling, she turns into a cool eccentric beauty. No wonder she gains a lot of fans after that moment. (Start over)

Same as nanase from nogizaka, I don't find her charm before 2006. (Ikuta and maiyan looks more appealing) But after she transformed, I knew she is the next star. Later she even become my first oshi.

So member can change and improve in the future. Their first evaluation isnt the dead end

But I wonder for member like marino, who is at first introduction gains a lot of interest but later is neglected by the fans. IMO, she has raw potential. So why? I know member like onuma and hikari isnt the typical idols that people like to be the center. But for me, marino's before debut is one of the prettiest.

Even if she cant be the center, she should be able to be average in meguri sales , not like this.

 

Of course I didn't misunderstood you, especially, my friend. What you said, that I quoted, reflects exactly my expressed fear. So on this aspect I think we are on the same boat.

What I expressed is the possibility of a sense of unfaireness, that many 3rd ki may feel (and even some 2nd ki) if a new girl, which had some years of idoling in her past, came in and was pushed. I would have no objection if that new member proves to be super, she may even cause an influx of new Buddies from fans that were following her in the past. I'm just afraid of the possibility of stirring things up negatively. If, based on a need of more "ready" members, this thing proves successful, I definitely can't complain.

I had no idea about that. Can you please tell me more, which are these groups? Nowadays I started following also some other groups like "Rain Tree" (but not White Scorpion) and especially another group with the weird name of "Kakakabububukikiki" which I find amazingly interesting (super energetic songs and dances and a wild, adult aura). It seems like they have their own theater, so they look like they are a mix of "mature-AKB and Sakurazaka-to-its-wildest".

 

@Philosophy Senpai I know the question wasn't meant for me but I will try to explain nonetheless. Kawaii Lab Groups = Fruits Zipper, Candy Tune, Sweet Steady and Cutie Street. Fruits Zipper and Cutie Street in particular are really popular in Japan right now.
Also Candy Tune might be new but they are already considered a success because one of their songs went viral on tiktok. Fruits Zipper is almost on pair with Nogizaka in terms of popularity, that's how big they are. They are definitely a big competition to Sakamichi right now since Kawaii Lab Groups are recent so they still have the freshness factor on their side, something sakamichi doesn't. That's why sakamichi has to level up their game to have a chance.


Now changing subjects...
Someone mentioned here how they pushed Rikatan last tour and I wonder why they didn't do the same with Airi. She was management initial pick and there are some old videos where we can see she sings well. Why didn't they push her as a vocalist? I feel like they sidelined Airi way too quick.

 

Although I'm happy abut Rika's push (and yes I want to see more of her), the situation with Airi doesn't tick well. The girl was selected to be the ace of 3rd gen and although yes, yes, I know, not all initial selections prove to have longevity (Satsuki for Nogi and Rio for Hinatazaka), Airi had the background experience, knowledge and charisma to continue being the ace... The girl is a very good dancer, singer and variety, is mature enough and super cute for most fan tastes...

I remember that at episode 190 of Sokosaku (2nd episode of 9th single hit campaign) and at around the 22:30 minute, when girls were praying for the hit, Airi was unexpectedly moved to tears, was unable to speak and at that time reflected such a strong emotion of "lament"... For what? Lost opportunities, the feeling of being left behind, not given enough chances to shine, remorse for slacking / not acting so strong on her opportunities, taking some things for granted or something deeper...?

In any case, history after that has shown that the Shizuki trend is weakening (or over) and that all 3rd ki are receiving more opportunities in an environment that still holds Airi at a very high level without being the "queen"... It is evident for all, fans, management and members, that we don't want "queens", we want a strong, homogenous group of amazons that give 101% of their strength in amazing performances. As a group!

 

It's interesting to see people think that shizuki's "trend" is weakening (or over) and airi sideline pretty early by management.

From my point of view, mio sudden rise in popularity contribute that a lil bit. (Mio is kinda like techi but different, their similarities are for unique husky voice, height and cool figure).

Not like maiyan and nanase that compliments each other and make nogizaka unbeatable, I don't see a good synergy from mio and shizuki. One of them end up eating/hinder other party. I feel mio pair better with miu or rika lol, that's might be a reason management push for rika. Most People stands idols not only for that person, but also the interaction between the group. The market is different than soloist. Eg fans like the interaction between ten rin run. So sometimes even the godlike persona like techi (or other kpop idols) ends up become less popular after they turn solo

The other reason is also because of airi who is supposedly shizuki's pair by management, can't keep up with shizu's popularity. But I still believe Airi is a good addition for saku senbatsu even tho I don't find her charm. (I think management think the same)

For me a good captain is a member that is not a genius but some jack of all trades. She can have more empathy for unpopular members and maybe be a person to consult about idol work complaints. Airi is approachable and not intimidating and good to be captain.

 

Having had previous experience in the idol world is not a guaranteed success when coming to a group like Sakamichi. The dynamics with new group members is different.

Airi was the obvious choice to center the first 3ki song. As time went by, the non-experienced members got settled down and well, evolved (or in Sakurazaka terms, they started to "bloom") in varying degrees. At this point, I'm pretty sure any 3ki can center a single, given the chance. This goes back to 3ki being balanced, unlike the previous generations where some members shone while others just remained in the background, even to this day.

While I have my doubts on some 4ki members, I don't mind being wrong, again.

 

What @Jsprite said above is 100% the current situation with Sakurazaka. It is the evolution of a system of dynamics in a group of people, in my opinion the natural and proper evolution. This balance within 3rd ki, where any member has bloomed and is expected to show even better things in the future, is exactly what keeps the whole group strong and shiny.

As for the small group dynamics (actually couples) it is also true what has been said. So far we've sees how amazing results they bring: Ten-Run is the pinnacle IMHO, remember how intimidated Ten was of Run at the time they were both interacting with Marina, back in this old episode with the hidden camera and the subsequent psychological analysis (Keyaki days) and how this evolved in the "spicy" looks and smile betwen them qwhen dancing "Masatsukeishu" and facing each other, or the "fist-fight" in "Udagawa generation"... Or the way Ten is calling Run but shouting "hey! Hikaru!"... They are like older-younger sister!

Ten-Karin another couple with strong dynamics, mostly exhibited outdoors in more "modelling" set-ups. (Sorry but I don;t remember any Run-Rin coupling event).

Withing 3rd gen Mio-Miu is and may become a banger: They paired Miu with Airi for Masatsukeishu at concert simply to reproduce a Ten-Run effect due to heights, but Mio-Miu will be amazing both in concerts and in modelling set-ups. Another pair that "rocks" is AiRiko where both girls interact so nicely, clashing fiercely like hydrogen and fluoride or like two strong neodymium magnets, but clearly being BFFs. Then Rika-Mio is also strong and promising to build upon as is Miu-Zono, one for which I would die to see more content (please management let content for this couple). Then we also may have Rika-Yuzu...

Returning to the point of the dynamics within the whole group, I'm expecting great things with the coming of the 4th gen. I'm expecting the usual microcosm of interaction withing 4ki but also some strong interactions with the older girls. I would repeat what I've said before that I wish the management will not try to "push in our throats" a girl with prior experience and that they will simply "let the flow go" and see which is blooming and when (as @Jsprite has said)...

 

Yes, let the members evolve and put each in front when they have evolved to it. Pushing "experienced" members is questionable. But pushing talented members.... Clearly, however, this can misfire, as in Shii-chan's second single in a row: dance talent isn't everything.

I sometimes fear that Takahiro has too much influence. I'd like a bit of relief from his somewhat manic style of "difficult" choreography. Like the Isshun no Uma posted recently on aidoru-online.me.

Pairings: "yes" to Mio-Miu. And to Airi-Riko. I'd even go for AiRin. Hopefully, the 4gens will present us with a further rich store of talent and personality. Will we get a "training camp" feature?

 

In the end each act of pushing someone is a 50/50 situation. Shii-chan in 9th single worked, in 10th single. I think management has seen the good reception to MioRika pair and decided to go with the flow as this might help both of them to get more popular.

 

I think for an ex idol becomes push able, is for her to be extra successful in their previous role and proven sell able. Eg: compare it to jang wonyoung and sakura miyawaki. With the like of nogizaka mahiro, hitomi, juri takahashi, irris jiwon, miyu takeuchi, etc

They need to be the "it girl"

odd case if the management is much better so they can promote the ex idols better.

So I have question: is sato neo the most popular out of her group? Why is it disbanded? Has her group performed in tokyo dome?

 

I don't think it's Takahiro's fault. Choreo usually follows the music's cadence, not the other way around. The "manic" or frantic style follows the "manic" music so prevalent in most Saku songs. By the way, I find it ironic that the Keya era of artistic, slower pace music/choreos for "rebel emo, adult-distrusting teenagers" was basically replaced with Saku's frantic music/choreos for "ex-rebel emo, adult-distrusting teenagers, who grew up and are now young adults".

 

It's not ironic, @Jsprite. It's natural evolution. Same members that have grown up. Only the marketing mix changed. Oh, and the girls freed from the aura of the imposed overlord.
Now, that everybody has left, the group will carry on based on the colours of the new girls and the legacy of the old.
And of course I consider Takahiro a blessing not a curse. If not for this man the group would not be what it is now. Of course the music plays a role but with the same music a more conservative choreographer would not have created this amazing group, starting with newbies like Ozeki, Uemura, Nagasawa and Yonetani... No, Takahiro is a major part of the keyaki and sakura DNA. And moreover, he is not simply a choreographer but apparently their coach, their psychologist and the person who empowers and inspires them...

 

It's less than a smooth evolution and more of a drastic change, my friend. That being said, I do agree with all the things you mentioned about Takahiro, whom I respect and admire for all the work he has done. He has to come up with a choreo fitted for the usual fast-paced music and overall direction of management.

 

Sakura Gakuin was a project by Amuse to train minors into the entertainment industry. They gave them vocal, dance, acting and variety training. Su-chan (Nogizaka Himetan's little sister) started in Sakura Gakuin before Baby Metal.

Sakura Gakuin was like ASH but released albums and had a theater where they always performed in front of an audience of a capacity of 2000. They also had a variety show called Fresh with Mori-sensei who also performed on stage in the theater. It was everything from group songs to unit to pair to solo performances and they always had a skit segment.

Like most idols during pandemic they had to disband due to lack of audience and income. Neorin would have graduated anyway and joined Sakurazaka with or without Sakura Gakuin's presence continuation.

They picked talented minors they trained to super ladies. They had a introduction song for every show called super lady. They graduate as super lady to challenge the entertainment industry.

As someone mentioned group dynamic in Sakamichi is what Neorin worried about in her vlog. While 3rd gen had members like Ishimori, Airi and Enriko management only pushed Ishimori but the fans never got a solo song. When Airi got sidelined she took the initiative to form a rock band with Enriko. If management doesn't care she will take the torch to shake up things.

I believe members need to be strong for things to change in Sakurazaka or else they will never grow in the group if they let management control too much. They can't do anything about senbatsu and center selection, but they can change individual things. Experimentation can't management control it's only up to the member to make it happen. Zuumin, Techi and Neru spoke up for solo songs. I'm pretty sure the rock band in Nogizaka was the members' idea and especially Asuka who was a drummer before she joined Nogizaka.

 

@Philosophy Senpai -- I agree with all everything you write about Takahiro. In a sense, he made the group (along with Hirate, in my opinion: she became a burden, but she certainly wasn't one at first). But I would still like to see a more relaxed pace sometimes. I don't know where the pace comes from -- from S&F or from him or from where -- but I'd prefer a bit more variety. However, the wonderful dance focus of the group is from Takahiro...and Hirate.

 

I have a very good feeling Airi woke up when management sidelined her and Enriko like they did with Zuumin. When they made that rock band practice video on sakurazakachannel we are going to see major changes and someone has to pull the trigger button on others who have skills to show off beyond management's plans. If management is not going to push individuals then those members need to have ambition and dreams. They can't wait until management give them opportunity. I believe the skilled members need to have some independence and dignity.

If they don't end up popular members they need to find other ways to showcase their talent for not being sidelined and forgotten. I know Sakamichi managements' priority are not to utilize vocalists so this is a individual choice like rock band for example.

But I think with the entrance of 4th gen and there are more vocalists than Neorin Airi has to form an alliance for vocalists in Sakurazaka imo. Unexpected things only happens by initiative from the members. Management will listen and bring the ideas to Akimoto-san. I don't think members meet Akimoto-san personally.

The vocalist segment has kinda faded after AKB lost momentum. You normally had push for vocalists in Onyanko Club and AKB48. I have no clear picture from Nogizaka If they had to fight for solo songs because it took all the way to 1st album after 10 singles. Ikoma was pushed by Akimoto-san which I know Ikoma didn't liked and stopped doing solo songs after 2nd single. I think those who didn't got MVs had to spoke up for solo songs.

 

Sadly, It isn't how business works tho. Why would they invest money to a member that doesn't generate money?

plus, by track record, management mostly offer a contract to popular member only when they graduate.

 

You don't need a contract to put in a solo song in a single. I wasn't talking about solo contracts. I meant within group activity and it seems management has approved Airi's and Enriko's idea to form a Sakurazaka Music Club for music instrument skilled members and vocalists this year. Like I said before they need new ideas in Sakurazaka to grow.


if the video does not show watch the video here

 

Woww that's so much 'Airi' related talk lol. As Airi oshi, I would like to talk about my opinion abt her.

Yes, she's not that super charming like you guys said. People hardly found out her charm, and I need to agree abt that part too. I used to think she similar to Hikaru, but soon I realized she's not but Shizuki is. Imo her problem is that she slow at adapting, meanwhile Hikaru and Shizuki was know what should they do to gain more popularity or what fans like and want. The more irritating about Airi is that she seem just accepted what fate assigned to her lol. Girl didn't seem to know what to do for boosting her popularity... and as her fans that's super frustating. I know that somehow SnF still have a faith on her, but only time will tell what's waiting her on the future.

But despite all of those thing, I believe in her and hope all the best for her.