[SCANDAL] Minegishi Minami demoted to KKS

The Verge is now talking about it:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/8/3967268/akb48-minami-minegishi-how-a-j-pop-cult-took-over-japan

So much oversimplifications, oversights, and mistakes but they are a large tech site.
The way the Verge wrote such a misinformed article is the final straw in what been bugging me about the tech site for a while. There are much better sources for tech news and I'll go there from now on.

 

Shaving her head was such a good idea.

THAT article just highlights a strategic deficiency that AKB management allowed to develop by focusing almost entirely on image popularity.

They should have had at some stage made some respected level of proficiency in singing and dancing nearing that of genuine singers and dancers, a prerequisite to be allowed in the top 20

This would have caused those in the group with any latent abilities to work hard to develop them and those that made it in the top 20 would be the best singers and dancers, the group as a whole would have benefited from everyone doing their darnedest to be a good singer or dancer at benchmark set outside of the group. Being better than the next girl isn't much of an achievement in AKB, but being comparable to genuine singers in the market place is. ONE would have thought it would have filled the later generations with more singing talent .

AKB would have still developed, fans would still have their favourites and also understand and respect the system that includes merit.

It would be difficult to criticise AKB as simply sexualising young girls if in fact they were respected as genuine singing and dancing talent...a real group based on this. By focusing on image first they set themselves up for this...what made them popular and rich may also have in it the seeds of its demise.

AKB would look quite a lot different if they approached this way some years ago, their performances would be extra awesome because of it, and they would have respect for being something other than popular.

 

Talk about being slow to the news lol. And as always, the article reeks of western generalization, I wonder when will someone do something new and actually write something objective instead of through their perception.

Spoiler

That said, I find this whole 'sexualization of girls' thing to be complete crap tbh, especially coming from the ones that did it for ages. Cmon ffs, you guys have been doing this crap since forever and now you're complaining about AKB 'sexualizing' girls? Really? Its either these ppl are that blind to not see their own actions, or everyone just has the mindset of 'I don't know it, so I hate it', and thank god some ppl there actually commented that America is just as guilty when it comes to sexualization.

There is nothing 'sexy' about AKB's acts tbh, anyone that has spent more than a month as a fan would've figured that out easily. I mean, even HebiRote, the by far most famous PV of AKB, started becoming 'cute and fun' to me a bit 3 months after the fandom as opposed to my initial reaction. AKB imo, focuses more on cute if anything, as opposed to the anime industry that emphasizes on more 'sex-appeal' or fanservice to sell their products, and its this emphasis on cuteness that drawn me into this group because honestly, I am bored of this 'sexy'. And really, if AKB is 'sexualizing' girls, what do you make of K-Pop groups? Whose very image usually focuses on 'sexy' and 'mature'? It's just ridiculous that K-Pop groups can get away with the deliberate provocative dances even in live performances while AKB is being criticized for almost nothing - I mean, when was the last AKB performance with a deliberate provocative dance? Answer: Zlich.

Thing is, to say that AKB is 'sexualizing' girls just show how shallow your grasp on this world is, because there're far more disgusting and worse stuff out there in the entertainment industry, this applies to the West and the East as well, and AKB is not even near the surface of it.

And about the songs/singing issue, I don't get why so many ppl from there are so 'obsessed' with 'talent'. It's just hilarious to see them hating on AKB over singing and 'talent' when honestly, I find the group to a lot more appealing due to the fact that none of the members are 'prefect'. And I also doubt (as with the person below me) that AKB would've selled that well if the singing skills of the members are already better than your average 'girl-next-door' and on par with top singers like Namie Amuro or Ayumi Hamasaki - Remember, the concept of AKB is 'Idols you can meet' and supporting the girls through their journey, having a more down-to-earth image and profile actually helps this concept as opposed to already having polished skills*

*: And before anyone even uses SNH as an example, yes, its no argument that SNH completely wipes the floor with AKB when it comes to singing, and its not surprising considering many of the girls have singing as their hobby. However, their singing is a far-cry away from reaching the standards of other Chinese artists (no doubt), which thus in similarity, places them in the same position as AKB - inperfection that can be polished along the way.

 

You are kinda asking for a complete concept overhaul.
I honestly doubt if AKB would have had succeeded as they have if they would have followed that route. Basically, the tolerated amount of inperfection fairly contributes to the "girl next door" attitude, that makes young girls think "I also could be a member, if i try just hard enough" and makes boys think "Well, those girls aren`t totally out of my range." An ensemble cast of aetheric superhumans with angelic voices just wouldnt make the cut. At any rate, inperfection is not boring.
Ever seen a Madonna live gig, for example? She can´t sing live for her life, yet she is _the_ symbol of her era.
That said, i do think that there is a fair amount of talent within the group. Their best members in singing, dancing, entertaining, respectively, might not be on a level with the greats in that category, but they are respectable in my book. Also, take into consideration that synchronized dancing while singing live is the premium discipline in entertainment.

 

What country are you from, exactly? You don't have to answer, I'm just really curious. Your posts in this thread contain so much vitriol about the evil 'West' and their inability to respect idol culture, but I was under the impression that a big majority of users here were 'Western' fans of AKB. I can't tell whether you're seriously dismissing multiple nations based on a few tabloid journalism pieces, or if you're a self-hating Westerner just brewing with too much contempt for your own culture. In either case, I don't think you should be taking the global online reaction to the Miichan incident so...personally? People who are completely ignorant of Japanese culture and the idol industry are naturally not going to be in the best position to judge this situation.

 

Yes, pls stop hating on the west dude. I realize that we sometimes can be closeminded about some things..but what ur saying is starting to get kinda offensive.

 

The term 'West' that I used is an all-round term, a more suitable term to say would be America but then ppl would say i'm being too 'specific', so a vague 'West' just seemed more appropriate to me. That said, its not only a 'few tabloid journalism pieces' that spured my anger, i've seen enough stupid comments on those sites to feed me just based on hatred for their hypocrisy, and its not only from Miichan's incident but from EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE about AKB, even in the positive ones that appears - everytime you'll have ppl using the same things to bash AKB, and when fans start to defend AKB, they either get shot down (I think some people here experienced this first-hand with the Miichan scandal) or plain ignored. It's just so frustrating to see those ppl hate on AKB when their own music entertainment is barely any better if not worse, and I'm just pointing out how ridiculous their arguments are in my post (as much as I admit I might have gone a bit overboard)

That said if I did offend anyone, then I apologize. It's just that I'm really sick and tired of seeing people who know nothing about AKB nor Japan nor the idol world give their ignorant comments on the matter, and I really disagree with what that entire article said.

EDIT: Okay, changed my post, it should be less offensive than the original post now. Sorry if I offended anyone here on the Stage, you guys were in no way the target of my posts

 

Out of all of them, they have to pick on Seifuku?
LMAO~ That's so typical
I guess Keibetsu, UZA, Beginner doesn't really prove their points
AKB have like over 400 songs and variety of diverse girls that are popular among men, female, kids and people always seem to like pigeon hole the group?

Really? What about I'm crying? That song is so depressing on wrist cutting level

 

I don't think what Randomguest said was offensive at all and I live in the West. It was much more subtle and far less offensive than what many have been saying about Japan. We all will have diff viewpoints on things and it's good to have it voiced if done in a constructive and unmalicious way.

 

Don't worry about offending anyone, I don't think that any of us felt like you were attacking us personally. But I do think you're letting the ignorance of the media get to you way too much. I understand what you're saying about the articles and comments, but that's unfortunately often the exact equation behind journalism:

Step 1) gather sketchy details on news incident!
Step 2) using general ignorance of topic at question, write inflammatory, sensationalistic news article that easily grabs attention!
Step 3)incite the masses into having dramatic reaction and strong opinion on things which they previously didn't know OR care about!

The people writing these articles and commenting know next to nothing about the entire nation of Japan, let alone the idol business, AKB48, or Miichan herself. In a perfect world, we'd say that we could simply inform them of their errors, educate them, and let them process the incident in a new, better-informed light. But that's just not likely to happen with such huge cultural differences at hand. Many people would rather just quickly point fingers, cast judgment, and move on than take the time to learn about something new. Let's not worry so much about the people who know nothing about AKB, and just appreciate the fact that the group HAS managed to make fans of people from so many different nations and cultures, like all of us here on this board. [rock]

 

How can you even talk about skills and talent when AKB doesn't let their idols get to a respected level in the first place... I thought 7 years for 1st gen would be enough but nope. I thought they took real vocal and dancing lessons(outside of individual trainers) but I guess I will never even see a girl in the idol world belting G#5 with a 3 octave range.

I honestly don't get how being able to sing well or dance well will make you inaccessible. Heck, if they worked hard for their skills, they'd be looked upto way more but Japan is not a friendly country to talent I guess
I think it would be awesome if the group could sing River with real harmonies, long belting, and etc while delivering dancing that's atleast on LDH(Company of Exile) level but oh well

This has nothing to do with an obsession on talent. talent makes music better and I doubt anyone can dispute it.

 

^ Don't get me wrong, I'm all for skills and talent in the girls, what I was pointing out was that there is no rule that all members auditioning for AKB must have talent beyond your average girl, I mean, wasn't that the point of AKB? To support that average girl's dream and watch her improve and grow?

My point is here, the typical American/Westerner only focuses on the finished product that it almost seems obssessive (and the comments like 'a group of talentless girls' serve nothing to help), and I don't see why AKB should be the same when the current system is much more enjoyable and with a lot more variety - I mean, you have members like Yukirin and Sayaka among the numerous who can actually sing well, you have members like Rena, Yuko and others who does well in acting, you have members like Jurina who is quite good in dancing, members like Sasshi and Miichan that are good in MC'ing, and so on and so forth, and then you also have members like Paruru, which just excels in being cute filler I don't know about you but that is much more fun to me

Besides, you always have K-Pop if your main concern is the finished product.

 

^
I don't consider kpop "finished" products since idols in Korea are shi*t on constantly but they are a little ahead compare to j-idols.

Since the music producers make the music, they're the one in charge of making the music look good? Idols just sing them lol

It would be nice if the 48 girls can wow people when it come to performing at least but considering how many of them didn't really join to be legit singers anyway, I doubt it will happen anytime soon.
You can cheer on average girls all you want but if fans have to watch them performing on stage, the ones that are better dancers, better singers, or better performers will get more attention like Sayanee's Jungle Gym solo when she played her guitar and ZKS acappella's positive reactions

 

And all the sudden talent vs average topic
Don't bother guys, talent side won't win if the big boss himself said the key to be successful is 98% luck, lol

 

I understand and I'm fine with that audition rule, but sometimes I feel that enough is enough. Yukirin and Sayaka in AKB for 5-6 years already but they could definietly sing much better than at the level they are at right now, there's a problem when you have takamina losing breath in Itoshisa no axel or Yukirin singing in whispers when you give her a hyper pop song or Sayaka just being inconsistent. Even masuda yuka was very unstable in her singing. Their dances could be more complex and interesting. Im not asking for any concept change, they can be as cute all they want.

The issue I have with the finished product thing is that AKB hasn't ever produced a finished product in any industries' standard.

Kpop is irrelevant. The music(as in composition and arrangement) is bland, boring, and generic. Sure, they have some people who can sing and some that can dance but really, their creativity stinks. Japan has that creativity I want. And I don't want to touch western pop at all.

 

^ Isee, if you put it that way then I understand your point

And yeah, I know K-Pop is irelevant in this matter, I just left that there because of how slightly similar their concept is to America/the West in regards to the whole 'finished product' issue

 

Not too much to ask that the Top girls in a large band are actually industry standard singers. I don't think any of them are at the moment tbh. Though a couple are getting closer.


And nobody wants an over produced soft focus techno crap production. Being competent singers and dancers at a peer level doesn't mean being like k pop. But at least it means AKB is more than sexualised young images, or at least that allegation . Also a matter pride．

I am the one in these threads sometime ago Identified K pop as being over produced and Westernised.

AKB can gradually make the change to competence base during generational change.

How much pride in AKB could we feel if one day AKB's top girl can stand on stage with other Japanese singers and hold her own. Nobody in Senbatsu is of that standard at the moment - as even Aki-p noted in his interview on AKB girls.

probably wasting my breath.

 

Closing thread until further notice.