Single AKB48 42nd [Kuchibiru ni Be My Baby] 15/12/09

Yeah, it's the first video in my post above (inside spoilers).

It came out on her second single, and was full of AKB members. Beyond that it's splitting hairs imho.

 

I don't think you understood what I said. I'm talking about how her senbatsu spot could be given to ONE of the 5 other girls who needed it more. I'm not sure how anyone got the idea that Takamina's position is equals to 5 position like what @TakaOshiMina is suggesting.

In any case, by your logic, the attention that this single will get would also be all about Takamina and her graduation so unless she can somehow use it to push some new members at every performance then the attention will only be given to Takamina and not the group. While this is not wrong (i.e. Rena & Nana), the problem is that I personally feel that there has been a Takamina overdose, all because of her graduation and nothing else in particular. As such, I am tired of it.

Well there are usually only 16 places available for AKB in music shows. When Takamina takes up once space, another girl wouldn't be able to do so. As such, Takamina's presence is very much delaying the new gen from getting the promotion they need to takeover so yes, you can arguably say that Takamina is stopping a whole new generation from appearing in TV shows but those are your words, not mine.

Next, I am not sure where you got the idea that "senbatsu" members should avoid appearing on music shows but I'd like to add that there are senbatsu members who are pass their prime and have been accordingly removed from senbatsu (i.e. Akimoto Sayaka, Miyazawa Sae). So yea, those senbatsu members definitely should not be appearing on music shows as I believe it is definitely not a good strategy to feature members that the general public don't really care about anymore.

Likewise, I'm really not sure whether there is a great future for the strategy to put a graduating member as center for a single. I think for Nana and Rena, it worked cause it was their first time, and also cause they didn't drag their graduation out as long as Takamina did. But generally, I feel like it's a waste of time and a waste of space.

There is a huge difference between getting your own original position and being a replacement for someone else. Yuko and Acchan had that position when they were members, why would they be stealing from the new generation when the new gen members weren't even around or in competition for that positions then?

Did Takamina help those girls get onto the news? Kojiharu did it for the Kojimas this year and last year she helped boost Nogizaka greatly, they even got two new songs featuring many members who never really got featured in nogizaka. IMO, that is a much more effective way to promote your juniors. Besides, Takamina's TMR cosplay was all about herself. In contrast, Kojiharu made it about others as well. As such, I'd say Kojiharu was way more useful even if you found Takamina's costume more epic.

For the record, I don't hate Takamina as suggested by @Neon among others. In fact, she used to be one of the members I like. But I feel like at this point, Takamina is becoming some sort of a stage mum with her trying to be the general manager while trying to be some sort of ace, she's becoming pretty much AKB's equivalent to Kris Jenner and it's distasteful imo.

 

Wait wait wait, Kasai has a graduation song? I know that they sang this song, but for me it was always a CW song from her 2nd Single. Not her grad. single. And I don't know, buf if this would be her grad song, so why doesn't it appear on an album?

Gesendet mit Taptalk

 

Uh. I didn't want to get into this argument, but I can't help myself.

@hugoa "Exactly because a member that is still in full functions should stop doing AKB related work (that it would affect the group itself - this logic is beyond me) just because she is leaving the group a bit after."

Yes, exactly. Yuko didn't center Labrador Retriever. Acchan opted out of Sousenkyo before her graduation so she wasn't even an option for Gingham Check center. They both did so in order to let other members shine, and that was the right decision. Even more so now, because AKB is in a weird place. The gap between the remaining 1-3 gens and the new gens is ever widening, and the longer no3b (and I would argue, Mayuyu and Yukirin) hold on to the spotlight and delay their graduations, the more the new gens will struggle.

Yamada Nana and Matsui Rena both centered singles immediately before their graduation, and I guess Takamina has a similar role in AKB to those girls in NMB and SKE, but they also didn't announce their grad a bloody year ahead of time, and their groups aren't suffering from a massive generational divide.


I do personally think she should sit this one out, but I don't expect her to, and even if she wanted to, I don't expect management to allow it. So eh. What will be will be.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall Takamina having anything to say about Tomu before she joined Team A. Yuko certainly did, singling her out as a rising star every time the new gen came up, sometimes in interviews together with Takamina. Eh, but she did make Tomu her under, and that worked out beautifully. And she did write that WPB article about Tomu recently but, well... well. At any rate, she has been writing that column regularly, and she gushes about most of the member she covers.

So yeah, you're right. Takamina is great at pushing the girls management wants pushed.

 

Indeed, parts of this discussion are starting to remind me of that song Liverpool fans used to chant "We all dream of a team of Carraghers" (Jamie Carragher being a long-serving, much loved player)


if the video does not show watch the video here

Huh....I think I just had a Nobodywil moment...

 

The single wil NOT be Takamina's graduation song uvu that's what the B-sides are for. Like Rena, Yuko, and Nana, she will get an A-side AND a graduation song, whether in this single or in the 43rd. At least those are my hopes for this single.

I'll be really mad if they ditch Miichan for Haruppi in Takamina's last single. I like Haruppi a lot, but she's not relevant enough to Takamina's trajectory that she should so far as to take Miichan's place in such an important single. If Haruppi is in, Miichan has to be in, and in a better position. In fact, First gens don't deserve any less than third row in this one. Even Kojiharu and Miichan in second row (throw me a Mayu and Yukirin at their side for good measure), only behind a lone Takamina in first row, that would be nice. Alas, Miichan in second row is an impossible dream by now I guess, let alone letting ehr center ONE single before she leaves. I just hope she's Top 16 if it's a big senbatsu and manages media senbatsu if it's a smaller one. no3b deserve nothing less. If it wasn't for them three, and their first gen comrades, who struggled in that first day, 48G would not be what is today.

I do think Sae, Mayu, and Yukirin should have good spotlight, with Sae along with Jurina as the SKE representatives. Sorry for Akarin or Aya, but Sae is more important. (speaking of which, Sae also deserves an SKE center before she leaves, give her the Rena treatment because she's earned it)

 

I hope that it will be AKB only (- Kennins~). I know it's mostly impossible but I can hope~
And, of course, Takamina Solo center!
When do we get the Senbatsu?

 

Really?? I'm so tired of explaining the same thing time and time again (sorry, maybe you never were a part of this discussion on other threads).

Acchan: It's absurd to talk about Atsuko as a comparison when she was, with the exception os Yuko's short lived reign, the queen of AKB while she was there. One could say that she had several last singles as center. Why would she feel the need to have a new one?

Yuko: Again, Yuko's graduation date was supposed to be before the election and even before the release of "Labrador Retriever". Why would Yuko be the center for that song? That's why she was the center for "Mae shika Mukanee". How can you make that comparison? If it wasn't for the rain Yuko wouldn't be in AKB by the time the single hit the stores.

Mariko-sama: Since the distance between her announcement and the graduation was so short, there was no time for a single. She left something like a month after the election.

Minami: Since, I don't know, 2007/2008 that Minami is not the solo center for any single. We all, Minami fans, were thinking that Minami would be the center for the fall single. As it turns out, there was no fall single. This is the only single available.

Why would Minami have to pay for a decision that was made by management? It was a request from management that forced Minami to make the announcement.

Also, can someone please tell me what events (AKB events) so far have been focused on Minami and her graduation?? I can't remember one.
It was talked at last year's Kouhaku because she had just made the announcement a few days earlier.
RH: The attention on her was a present from the fans (Nana got the same treatment by getting second place).
Election: that's the same for every girl, not just Minami.
The only (more or less) event that I can remember during the entire year is this single that it was announced as Minami last single. Nothing else.
Oh, yeah, and the teaser about the documentary, where it was indicated as possibly being center around Minami (really doubt it).

If you cannot provide evidence of a management push regarding her graduation, please stop saying it as being true.
(EDIT: By "true" I mean, trying to pass the idea that this year was all about Minami's last year in AKB, when that's been, to my knowledge, absolutely not true.)

 

So you should search better , Takamina is often hanging out in private with younger fellows ,giving advice and helping team members, including Tomu,
by her own will ,something most other seniors never do !There are plent of reports so i won't extend this discussion .
Your comparison with Yuko is totally out of place too, since Takamina wasn't even in the same team
obviously she didn't have the same contact with Team K members.

 

I mean I don't expect the original team A members to make a comeback for the song, but the ones that are still active in entertainment will likely come back for the concert at least. So people like Oshima Mai, etc. we might see again.

NMB and SKE aren't suffering a major generational divide?... LOL

As a hako-oshi of both, I can plainly tell you that they absolutely are.

Honestly, I expect the next single to be like Mae Shika - Takamina center, with a sendoff song after that.

 

If your feelings are even slightly less than positive towards Takamina, you probably shouldn't voice them here. She's been deified and glorified beyond all reason and a horde of angry oshis will descend on you. Seriously. Even if you're just neutral on her and harbor no ill feelings, you have to frame everything you say in a positive light and acknowledge every contribution she's ever made before trying to somehow work in any type of constructive criticism.

As for this single, I'm hoping 16-18 members. The big senbatsus are a nice gesture but do very little to actually show or promote all those girls. I think they should be left for the election single, it just makes more sense there. As a fan of several girls who were those bottom 16 of KR and BwT, you may as well have been an under girl. I think even 20-22 is too many.

My 18 and 16 picks, in formation, assuming Takamina center.

 

Takahashi is one of the biggest names in AKB by far, and if you go by the Nikkei power ranking, the most popular female idol in Japan right now. Even if you are not particularly a fan of hers, one way to look at it is that it's a good move business-wise to try and hype her graduation as much as possible.
As for the "taking of space in sembatsu" topic, my take is that even if she seems to be taking up a spot for you, for people that support Takamina, she is not. It's about respecting other people's opinions, you're welcome to disagree but there's no need to be an ass about it, frankly speaking. Though I do understand that for people who oshi the members who are just on the fringe of senbatsu, like Tomu, it's frustrating, but I do feel that they may let their judgement be clouded by the frustration, and now there is this venting towards anyone that they deem unworthy of the spot for whatever arbitrary reason that may not have been there otherwise.
I don't really buy the argument that she is mistreated by management that some Takamina oshis seem to try and propogate though, I think she has gotten a ton of spotlight this year. For this, I would consider again that she is one of the few members that are still relevant to the public, and can actually hold her own talkwise and personality wise, which is more that can be said for a lot of members that management tries really hard to make happen. Regardless, the attacks on her character are just not necessary or even justified. The thing is, it happens to anyone as soon as they get some kind of relevance in the fandom, everything they do is nitpicked and they don't "deserve" this and that. It's pretty boring tbh.

Anyway, none of this matters, because what makes this entire argument irreleveant is that while Takamina is doing something wrong, Kojiharu is somehow doing some great charity to her kouhais. Seriously? I thought the "Stop Haruna" crap was the lamest part of all of janken. However, that's my opinion; the difference is I'm willing to state it as such.

 

SO AGREED. And I'm even just speaking from the POV of someone who actually likes her quite a bit.

On another note, I wonder when the HS orders are going to come in?

 

@trxsh
Just in case a part of your comment was directed at me, I would like to clarify that I was not complaining about lack of exposure (assuming, of course, that she will get the concert and center position in a single).

But my question was a real and honest one. If you know of any event were Minami's graduation was a special part, please tell so I can try to get it on-line. I would love to see it.

 

You are free to say whatever you want as Takamina fans have the same right to reply if they disagree

 

Umm no ... This is a complete exaggeration, it doesn't matter when you are neutral or less than positive or even bash her , it's been complained about that she shouldn't have a spot in her last single which is completely illogical since by that halloween night would've been her last single and she didn't have a graduation song in it and she can't have it in the 10th anniversary album either because it's the 10th anniversary for the group and people will complain , so she only gets this single as a chance to have her graduation stuff in
And they bashed her because she announced her graduation a year ahead when it was the management decision ,

Hmmm and I can't voice my opinion?!

Umm yes .... She made a whole special episode to promote Naanya and miion , and an episode for Sayanee and Sakura this year , and 2 HKT48 episodes last year , and recently she made an interview with NGT48 (it's still not out though ...)plus she always makes interviews and columns about 48G and different members and post about their activities on her sns like when they release photobooks so yes she does help them get into news

 

Thanks for proving my point. (I didn't say anything bad about Takamina but the mere suggestion I made that it's okay to set off your outrage about a bunch of things other people said) no one said you couldn't have an opinion either, but yall keep pushing that persecution complex, it's doing wonders for your reputation.
You think as a Paruru oshi, I don't know a thing or two about this subject? Cause you better believe I do. The tempers of many Paruru oshis are like an exposed nerve - one touch and it flares roaring up. The difference is Takamina doesn't get nearly as much heat as others, so when it comes, you all (a general you, not you personally) have much less experience coping. I have to watch everything I say when I want to defend my oshi, or I automatically get grouped in with her more rabid fans, and that reflects poorly on everyone, including her.
Consider that, then come back at me and say I'm exaggerating. I'm not.

 

@Parikkuren YES. I went out of my way to be polite and frame everything as best as I possibly could. To be fair, the replies to me were generally very polite as well, which I do appreciate I hope y'all can see that I'm really not hating on Takamina at all. I think we have (mostly!) all been pretty polite in this debate, and I hope it can stay that way without dissolving into ridiculous "you can't be a true fan if you said that! I can say whatever I like yarrrrrgh" fighty stuff***. We all know it's just each other's opinions, and we all know that management will do whatever they want anyway. It's more of a "if I was miraculously placed in charge of AKB, I would do x". I definitely want her to have her time, and her graduation song and the dress and the graduated people returning and the long line of members and the flowers and all of it.

@hugoa I agree with you: as far as I know management hasn't done anything special at the various events so far. Takamina oshis however have been very visible on major event threads (for example getting her that awesome RH result). I mean, of course they would be, she's their oshi, I'm sure I would be the same. This means that for me it has felt like the goodbye process has been very long and drawn out (yes I know you said she didn't choose the announcement date and I am not blaming her for it if it wasn't her choice). I think personally I prefer a short sharp shock approach.

*** Oh hey, looks like that happened just whilst I typed. Too slow.

On topic: I so hope they have team songs. It's been ages since some AKB girls got to appear anywhere in a single. I really really want every girl to be on this one. It's weird having the album so close to the single though: will there be team songs on just one and not the other, maybe? How many different gumi/undergirls type groups will they choose to make between the two??

 

@mysoshipinups
@TakaOshiMina
Yes, and don't forget those specials where she went to the theater of many if not all sister groups to talk with them.

 

A graduation song is one thing, but I'm seeing people saying they'll hate whoever gets center of the single if it isn't Minami, etc. That's a bit more than asking for a graduation song, which she absolutely does deserve. As for being in the single itself... I wrote earlier that imho she should opt out of it. There is ample precedent for this so far, and I believe it is a good precedent. But that was not meant as a complaint--I don't expect her to do it, and I won't complain when she doesn't.

She has stated, clearly, that it was management decision?

I wasn't, I generally try to stay out of idol wars. I'm not sure why I got myself into this one.

Takamina's graduation date is before the release of this single too, so... granted the timing of the single's release the day after the 10th anniversary concert and Takamina's graduation makes me think she will be center regardless. Aki-P seems to have expected her to be center for the election single but fans didn't cooperate.

Because it is the closest comparison available. Nothing is ever going to be perfectly identical.

Unlike some more recent speedy graduations, Mariko herself decided to leave as soon as possible. It's the same as if she had opted out of a single.

I can almost guarantee you that her Nikkei power ranking mentioned above is a result of her impending graduation. The graduation itself is still over two months months away, so there hasn't been a whole lot specifically related to it yet, but there certainly hasn't been nothing. She has been literally everywhere and in everything all year. All ten years even. I can only list the things I remember, which will be very few, but just these last two weeks she had a two-part Takamina SP on Ariyoshi AKB (promoted as potentially her last appearance on the show). A few months ago she started a regular column in Weekly Playboy that will continue until her graduation. She has multiple regular TV Shows, always has a prominent place on stage, outside of Janken she has literally never been out of Senbatsu, etc.

She's the most well-known idol in Japan because (especially this year) she's the most well-promoted idol in Japan.

Yes, the group could certainly do worse than putting Takamina as center, but I think it's ridiculous to argue that she should be center because she "deserves" it. Center isn't just about promoting a member, and the things she's done and the things she's known for don't correlate with being center.

No. They aren't. NMB48 literally can't be facing a massive generational divide because they only have 4 generations + draft members, and Yoshimoto is doing an excellent job of bridging the tiny generation gap that does exist. SKE has 7. Yeah, they aren't doing so great but that's for different reasons entirely. AKB has fifteen, the most promoted of whom are the first three, followed by a wasteland of squandered potential, then 9th gen (only two of whom have received consistent promotion), 10th gen (i.e. Annin), 12th gen (only one of whom has been consistently promoted), and 13th-15th.