Event / Concert AKB48 Group in TDC: Concerts & Request Hour Setlist Best 100 2018 (2018/01/13 - 2018/01/21)

I did think (and probably others too) their handshake sales and single sales are decent --- just not exceptional like their ssk and RH performance given their being relatively new and the modest population (2.2 million) of their home prefecture. It seems more logical that you're either decent in everything or exceptional in everything and that a large fanbase moves independently and not as a collective whole. It's just a bit strange to see exceptional financial power being employed in a seemingly targeted manner and not across the board if the source is spread out as opposed to being concentrated within a small group.

But someone can more or less calculate the minimum amount needed to vote for say from ogiyuka to maho and then we'll see how this compares to their singles sales. Of course people can just vote and not buy singles. Probably better to wait for the next ssk and we'll find out more.

 

I share your point of view. This is one of the reasons for me to have stopped caring that much about those events, specially the Request Hour.

I'm in favor of a system that could limit the number of votes from a single person, or maybe one that could discard voted when there are signals of manipulation.

When I saw that NGT was the second group with most songs on this year's RH I was kinda surprised: "How this was possible?". I mean, at least for me the group didn't seem to have shown potential for it during last year.

Sometimes I think that some people are just following the hype or maybe trying to create one. Before it seemed that the hype was with Team 8, now it's NGT an who knows who would be next? STU maybe?

 

Guys ok I feel all of you, but please do not include members in your discussion. Sure Ogiyuka did her very best struggling for a lot of time, but sure did a lot of other members. Jurina has been pushed since she was 11, but in terms of popularity she has never been in the top, and she had more antis than fans at elementary school. I know this thing is complicated, but none of the members are wrong in this thing, so please don't involve them.

 

My point was to explain how some songs and their singers are inextricably connected with each other because of the lyrics and the themes, in response to an user who wanted people to care more about the songs than the members performing it (and wanted to "solve" this "issue" by turning Request Hour into a randomized shuffle concert). I used the extreme example of Jurina as someone who I would feel uncomfortable with seeing perform Sekai wa~, since it would clash with its content. Peace.

 

Why do we have to pull SKE in this argument ? SKE’s fans never shoved the entire S2, S3 or KII3 into everyone’s faces in RH, whether they could not or did not want to do it, they just did not do it. HKT is as strong as SKE at SSK and AKB is the strongest, so please don’t talk as if only SKE tries to power vote / game the system.

And I agreed with @rka on NGT’s sale and handshake. When they have their three teams + kenkyuusei we will see if they can maintain their big percentages or not.

@Cisalpine88 Just because Jurina does not have a song and an MV describing her struggle doesn’t mean she didn’t struggle. Please don’t throw shade at other members just to make a point.

 

>Its a fact that people were pissed about RH. Were those people rightly offended? Was it justified? I can not tell.
What I know is that they haven't provided any valid justification for it so far, and the only argument against it that was remotely passable ("muh organized voting") conveniently forgot that it has been like that for almost a decade, so getting outraged about it just now only feels comical to me.

> I do however see a lot of tribal thinking and projecting here, in your post as well as in those posts you have declared as "coming from anti." Do you really want to turn this into this kind of debate?
I can't read these comments without also noticing which users they are coming from and concluding there is a strong sense of partisanship behind their statements. For better or for worse, on forums you leave behind a long paper trail from which people can reconstruct your profile. Things would be easier if only we were on 2ch 5ch, the narisumashi capital of the Internet, where you can impersonate like there's no tomorrow and pretend you are just giving an objective, impartial opinion while hiding behind anonymity. Oh well...

>Is "Boy, seeing so much of NGT in this event was really boring" already too bothersome to say?
Watching brand new songs being performed by new groups (which might turn into an opportunity to discover more about them, who knows) isn't exactly my dictionary definition of "boring". Mine would be probably closer to having to watch the same old songs of the last years being performed again by the same old members, only at different positions in the rankings ....which is for some reason what some people were unironically looking forward to, oh joy. For an excuse to criticize, it simply sucks.

>E.g., why had it to be the entire back catalogue to press into RH?
Why not? And let me point out again that there's no way for anyone to know in advance how many of these songs would have ranked in anyway, seeing as how vote numbers have never been made public in the past and so nobody knows for sure where the "threshold point" lies. The best criticism one can put forward is that they overestimated where the "threshold point" was located and simply overkilled it, but this is not a crime last time I checked. Enjoy the songs and shut up, people. ┐(´ｰ｀)┌

> If you want to make some form of a statement, why not chose some of those songs, pushing all of them to the top (top3 maybe, whatever)?
But you see, it already happened. That's why the two most important NGT songs, message-wise, made it into the Top 3. Some research before talking, please...?

>What about all the other songs which were important to other groups but couldnt be performed?
Such as...? I remember NGT members calling for fans to vote for certain songs (i.e. Katomina asking fans on Showroom to make Gesu na Yume rank in), I even remember radio personalities on NGT's radio shows inviting listeners to vote for Sekai wa~ at the end of the broadcast, and discussing RH with members during it. Has any explicit statement been made by the members of other sister groups about what songs they cared enough to rank in? If they did, it obviously didn't reach out as much. If they didn't, their fault -- and their fault only.
Besides.... Picture someone saying this: "Guys let's be conservative with the voting -- even though nobody know for sure how many votes we need to ensure that the songs rank in because of the aforementioned reasons. I have a feeling there's other fans who want their own groups' songs to rank in, too". Honestly speaking, do you think a dialogue like this has ever taken place in the history of democratic voting?

>Winning is great, but it doesnt require humiliation.
This part is the one that makes the least sense of all. Unless up until now you have always looked down on NGT with so much contempt and belittlement that, in turn, you end up misconstruing their smashing victory as an act of humiliation, a slight against yourself. In this case, it's one more confirmation I was right in saying that it just boiled down to thin-skinned fans feeling inadequate about having failed their oshimen during this Request Hour.

 

Ok I was asking another forum member for the definition to "triggered" earlier and I think it has just been provided.

 

I was curious why I was cited, and then ...

Nothing better than keep throwing shit at the fan ... It must be amusing.

 

I see Rika as ally who represents the necessary evil and gives this group of country girls a bit of an edge. Potentially troublesome but still a great asset to have. Though I admit I am kinda worried after Rie's graduation that there won't be an adult in the group who keeps her in check.

And wow, the novels here in this theread get longer and longer.

 

I like NGT a lot but you've hit the nail on the head regarding how their rise is sometimes perceived. Other groups had a gradual rise with popularity being gained through increasing handshake sales and performing successful concert tours over several years, they didn't go from first gear to fifth in the space of one year. It has the perception of something being short-circuited, of systems being gamed by means that may be nefarious or legitimate.

 

The "you"s in there are all to be intended as generic "you"s, nothing to be taken personally. The point is where one can possibly see the "humiliation" of other groups in all of this, which is of course the source of the complaints.

 

Let’s me tell my theory. Except very few top results, the ones on top (e.g. 3rd - 10th) tend to have a stable gap in votes. Assumed that NGT votes were organized and they put a stable gap between their top songs. If this gap matches the natural gap of the top songs from other groups, we will have a high possibility to have this pattern. NGT wota may know the number of votes they used for their songs last year to rank 7th, 5th, and 1st. So, they can roughly estimate and set a reasonable gap between their songs.

 

I think the antipathy towards NGT is silly.
NGT doesnt have songs that have gone mainstream or members that have become a household name, but honestly no one who debuted after the "golden era" have gotten big in this way. As far as I can tell, the measure for a 48 group's success now (in these days when public doesnt really care) is how dedicated and strong their core fanbase is. Every group has their strategies and big spenders, NGT just seems to have won over more of those types of fans and to have a stronger fanbase than the other groups in general. I think the members have won over fans by creating a solid group narrative, as well as individual stories for themselves, and as a newer group they have that fresh spirit and fun dynamic that idol fans love. They also seem to be managed really well and have had great partnerships and promotions from the start. They have a great catalogue of songs. The arguments about powervoting and all are really irrelevant to me- what, for the past ~9 years it was fine but NOW it's unacceptable? Look up "tall poppy syndrome".

 

Man people already forgot when the entirety of B3 made it into the RH? Sure different times but I feel like the NGT fandom is almost like a rebirth of that Team B fandom.

 

I think the song you mean is 'Boku wa Shitteiru'
I cry every time I listen to that song, because I think about Jurina and all she went through. (OK it's not written for Jurina but it will forever remain in my heart as 'Jurina's song)

 

it's kinda offtopic, but I was surprised to hear such things from a veteran fan, who supposed to know how SSK voting works (and RH as well), so I think, some things should be clarified - it could be educational for others as well.

I guess this misconception about voting and "humiliation" arises because you didn't participate in those battles for 1st place and don't know how it worked from inside, but I can assure you that none of Sasshi's fans voted to humiliate anyone because none of them was sure about their win. everyone voted with all their might just because of the fear of losing (when you are at the top, not losing is a bigger driving force than winning)). with hindsight it's so easy to say that the win was "easy and secured from the start", but it was never the case when the actual voting happened. because of the "tragedy of 2014" every Sasshi's fan learned the lesson that "stopping at some point" and giving their votes to other members means losing. going all out is the only option to win.

first of all, there is no such thing as coordination in SSK voting for Japanese fans because there is no need. there are no tricky schemes - you just buy as many votes as you can and vote for your oshimen. the only real coordination and campaigns were done by Chinese fans. since they don't have easy access to all (cheap) voting options, they have to gather the money and transfer them to Japan to buy as many votes as possible. and since individual fans were giving their money to those campaigns there was a pretty strict reporting on how the money was spent, so the only thing that was more or less known during voting period is the size of "Chinese bullet".

but the irony is, you can't hide such high organization and transparency (and that's what wrong with NGT's votes - there is no sign of any campaign or organization behind them), and that information played in advantage of Sasshi's camp - despite the fact that Sasshi's Chinese campaign always had 2-3 times fewer votes than Mayu's campaign, it fueled Japanese fans to vote even more, resulting in those big gaps in overall votes. so the opponent's camp kinda brought this upon themselves. motivation always played a huge part in SSK voting, every time when someone else got ahead of Sasshi in prelims (or offended her), it just increased the motivation of her fans, even if they weren't that into the voting before that (like in 2016 and 2017).

 

I really don't think it's the strong fanbase that made this happen though. I agree with everything you said about NGT, and I do prefer NGT over most of the other groups, but I still don't think it's the whole fanbase that made this happen. The reasons are already stated tons of times in this thread, but to be simple, look at the 'fanbase's reaction after the SSK and RH (the Japanese fanbase, ofc). They were shocked as much as everyone else was.
Besides, it's their what, 3rd year? SKE is in its 10th year now, with NMB and HKT closing up. Comparing the fanbases is a bit absurd at this point. And don't get me wrong, I prefer NGT over SKE or NMB, but the point is, they don't have a larger fanbase. A more spirited one, maybe, but not larger.

I laughed at this so much. As a big Mayu-oshi, I've always regarded 2014 as the year of triumph, and seeing the events from Sasshi's fans' point of view made me realise once again that the concept of SSK is actually very interesting. Especially when there are two members fighting for the spot.
By the way, since I think you're a fan in communication with the Japanese fanbase, could you tell me the answer of one question I've been always searching the answer for? Does Sasshi fans powervote more than any other member's fans, and they are super-duper rich, or are they just a lot more in number compared to other members' fans?

 

I didn't say "the whole fanbase" made it happen, nor that their fanbase was the largest so I dont really see the point of anything you said

/edit: to clarify, me saying they have a stronger fanbase means exactly that I think they have the most "spirited" fans.

 

I'm wondering if the team surprise stage would've still been all ranked if it was given to HKT