[GENERAL] THE JKT48 thread!

Discussion in 'General JKT48 Discussion' started by Mr Waffle, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. NSANDERS

    NSANDERS Kenkyuusei

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    are you tokyo pop, as the same guy in jkt48stuff?
    sorry, sometimes i always tough that japanese contributor there at least understand some basic indonesian..
    CMIIW :)
    well i'm not sayin' the lyricist always sucks, let's just say it as "often"..
    galaxy red got some point there. the translated indonesian version give me weird n awkward impression, n makes peoples hardly understand about the song.
    sometimes they doin just fine.. first rabbit,yuuhi wo miteiruka is good ones n heavy rotation quite the better sides..
    but sometimes the weird translation hit the level of "confusing".

    boku no sakura, hikoukigumo, futari nori no jitensha, jkt sanjou etc..
    i'm fluent indonesian n my ears is good but i still have to search the lyric of this songs on the nets..
    maybe most indonesian fans would feel the same way as me or galaxy red
    indonesian fans daily life doesnt really familiar with going home together with bicycle, school graduation with sakura flowing, separation with precious friend on the airport, or even fortune cookies.

    so in order fans can understand, get connected n enjoy the songs, the lyrics should translated with the right way..not just literally translated. plus they seem to have a problems with Indonesian grammar..

    yes they have some touching part such as "keberadaan yang seperti angin" or "dengan sedih tak dapat melangkah maju". but from the WHOLE SONG itself i cant help to feel this awkwardness here n there so often..

    sorry i'm not tryin to be smartypant, but this is just how i feel.. :)
     
  2. Tokyo pop

    Tokyo pop Kenkyuusei

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    Thanks,Galaxy Red
    I completely understand the situation. The only thing I can think of is that they need such word-to-word translation because they have to synchronize the lyrics with the dancing.

    In a way, translation requires artistic creativity.Sometimes,I am having trouble translating an article of our website "JKT48Stuff" :) I look forward to improved the situation soon.Thanks again,
     
  3. abaone94

    abaone94 Kenkyuusei

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    ^
    I quite agree with you, Tokyo Pop.

    The matters of lyric translation in JKT48 is not limited to "translating" only. They also need to sync with the dance moves as well since their songs are always accompanied by dances.

    This happens to all JKT48 songs that require choreography. If they approached with how Indonesian lyrics usually do, I believe that the lyrics won't fit with the original dances. However, for songs that doesn't have dances - Sakura no Shiori is one good example - the translation is far, far more better.
     
  4. Tokyo pop

    Tokyo pop Kenkyuusei

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    Hello,NSANDERS,

    Yes,I am Tokyo Pop from JKT48 Stuff and I don't know any Indonesian :)
    Thank you very much for your comment. Needless to say,to communicate the meaning of a song is the most basic of basic skills. If not, Indonesian fans feel the frustration of not knowing the point of a song :(

    Now, I take some comfort from the fact that you enjoy First rabbit and Hebirote lyrics,they are nice songs.
    Your stories are very interesting to me and I hope someone here do an article about the accuracy of translation for our JKT48 Stuff :)

    Thank you!
     
  5. Galaxy Red

    Galaxy Red Kenkyuusei

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    completely agree. they do it word-to-word because they have to synchronize it with the melodies. from my point of view, the translator is facing a major problem, how to translate it so it will synchronize with the melodies of vocal and dance choreography. but unfortunately, the translated lyrics sometimes sounds "weird". this translating lyric is pretty hard to do, but I think they did good job at KFC English ver.

    if I heard it correctly, ManaGu English ver. in pocari CM has slightly different translation from the original (please correct me if I'm wrong). it makes me wonder, is it okay for the translator to slightly change the lyric so the translation matches the melodies and not sounds weird?
     
  6. Tokyo pop

    Tokyo pop Kenkyuusei

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    Oh,is that so!? JOT will find a solution about there.
    BTW,I was a bit surprised that you accepted Sakura and its special meaning for Japanese people and tradition.

    I think it's OK though I don't know what Akimoto-san is thinking about :) , as you know ManaGu is something in-depth(?) lyrics. From that point of view,they have to develop a solid translation especially this time,I think.
     
  7. Vicz48

    Vicz48 Kenkyuusei

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    Indonesian language (Bahasa Indonesia) has its own 'grammar'. It's called 'Tata Bahasa Bahasa Indonesia'. Further info about this please read the book titled 'Tata Bahasa Baku Bahasa Indonesia' which is published by PT. Balai Pustaka (Persero), state-owned publisher of Indonesia. 'Tata Bahasa Bahasa Indonesia' is taught in Indonesian schools' Indonesian language and literature class.

    The English translator for both JKT48 KFC (Fortune Cookie in Love/FCIL) and Managu (Summer Love Sounds Good!) is Hasief Ardiasyah, the associate director of Rolling Stone Indonesia. He only translated the Indonesian to English versions and somebody else did the original versions (Japanese) to Indonesian ones.
    Regarding your "is-it-okay-for-the-translator-to-slightly-change-the-lyric-so-the-translation-matches-the-melodies-and-not-sounds-weird?" question, Well, he already did so with his previous work (KFC english version/FCIL) and JOT liked his job.
    e.g: 恋するフォーチュンクッキー Koi Suru Fortune Cookie (KFC) proper translation (In my personal opinion) is "Love Fortune Cookie" which roughly means a cookie with a prophecy of love inside. On the other hand, JKT48 English and Indonesian translations for KFC are "Fortune Cookie in Love" (FCIL) and "Fortune Cookie Yang Mencinta" (FCYM) respectively.
    Both FCIL and FCYM really sound weird because Fortune Cookie is an object and an object (in this case, a cookie) cannot do things such as loving others or falling in love. They should have gone with "Love Fortune Cookie" and "Fortune Cookie Cinta" for the English and Indonesian respectively. Well, I only dislike the translated song titles and I like the rest of the translated lyric (English and Indonesian ver.).

    There's only one lyricist in 48 Group, Yasushi Akimoto, that is. There's a rumor about him employing some ghost lyricists but let's not go further into that. Anyway, lyricist is the one who cooperates with music composer & arranger to create a song.
    As for those guys who translate Japanese lyric to Indonesian (AKB/SKE/NMB ver. to JKT ver.) or Indonesian lyric to English (both JKT ver.), they are called translators and not lyricists. Translators might slightly change the original lyric in order to match the melody or make it rhyme in the new language version but that doesn't mean they are the ones who create the lyric aka the lyricist. Once again, the lyricist is the one who cooperates (by creating the lyric) together with the music composer & arranger to create a song in the first place (in original language version).
     
  8. NSANDERS

    NSANDERS Kenkyuusei

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    I SAID:
    AND
    just not to cause some missunderstanding


    I ALSO SAID:
    ALSO:
    sorry if u got confused with my writing, i mean the lyricist here is not yasushi akimoto.
    my main point is whoever translates akb' song that written by yasushi akimoto into indonesian version lyrics.
    i pretty much knows the differents between lyricist n translator.
    i just wrote lyricist bcoz they made the Indonesian version lyrics.
    by translating it of course.
    so if they called "translator", okay then.. fine.
     
  9. xzerozero

    xzerozero Kenkyuusei

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    lol dude, i though i have problem with my language. you save me :lol:

    actually, i've inspect it a little about the translator in every credit on their singles. but its written "JKT Operatinal Team".
     
  10. CherryBlossom48

    CherryBlossom48 Member

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    @Vicz48 Eh? i thought "koisuru" means "in love/falling in love"? :XD:

    Managu translated lyric is a bit weird but it's better than theater song, IMO the translated lyric for theater songs is always suck :^^;:
     
  11. Vicz48

    Vicz48 Kenkyuusei

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    ^
    @CherryBlossom48
    You're correct that Koi Suru means "to be in love" or "falling in love". The problem with JKT48 translated KFC song title is the order of the words. Instead of "To-be-in-Love Fortune Cookie" or "Fall-in-Love Fortune Cookie", they opted for "Fortune Cookie in Love" and "Fortune Cookie Yang Mencinta" that ruin the very meaning of a cookie with prophecy ("fortune") of love inside.
    The most popular term for a cookie with prophecy ("fortune") of love inside is "Love Fortune Cookie", so I'll personally go with that as the translated song title.

    The translator for all JKT48 song lyrics (Japanese to Indonesian) are JKT48 Operation Team since Heavy Rotation album up to the latest single but the English translator for KFC English version (Fortune Cookie in Love) is not a JOT member. He's the guy I mentioned in my previous post. Look at English translation part on JKT48 KFC single credit title. You'll see his name again on JKT48 Managu single credit title if they decided to include Managu English version (Summer Love Sounds Good!) as the 4th track of JKT48 4th single regular edition.
     
  12. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    Congratulations on winning the 2013 Yahoo! OMG Award!
     
  13. daydreamerzz

    daydreamerzz Kenkyuusei

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    Yeaaah !!! Congrats on winning 2 awards~ As the best group and the group with the most die-hard fans ! lol :XD:

    Congratulations~ [party] [party] [party]
     
  14. sakurazaki

    sakurazaki Member

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    I think you like to quote people and take their words out of context [party]

    Yes I know Indonesian language has its own grammar. I'm Indonesian for God's sake (see my location?).
    I said Indonesian grammar is practically non-existent, which is TOTALLY different if I said 'Indonesian grammar is non existent' (anyway, ALL language has grammatical rules :D ). If I said Indonesian language doesn't have grammar, why would I say that there are lots of grammar mistakes in the lyrics.

    I said practically non existent, because compared to Japanese (and English) grammar, that has tenses like past tense, future tense, past perfect, complicated particles etc; Indonesian has none like that. You only need to pay attention to the order of your words & other little things. But even with those simple 'grammar' rules, the lyrics & translation still sucks. :D

    Let's take the first line in 'Musim Panas Sounds Good'
    Can you tell me that this is a good Indonesian sentence? Do you think the teachers in Indonesian language and literature class will say this is a correct Indonesian sentence? :p

    I know the translator(s) has to translate lyrics directly from Japanese version; which is hard, since they have to find the right Indonesian words to match the melody & rhythm that already suits the Japanese words. But strictly speaking, grammar wise, well... [hehe]
     
  15. Vicz48

    Vicz48 Kenkyuusei

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    I do like to quote people but whether I take their words out of context is simply a matter of you imagining things wildly. People with wild imagination are either very successful in their lives or mentally ill. I really hope you're one of the former.

    I couldn't care less whether you're Indonesian or not but your statement makes me wonder a lil' bit:
    1. Why do you think one's nationality has to be Indonesian in order for one to know that Indonesian language has its own grammar? There's many Indonesian language experts in the world without Indonesian nationality.
    2. Why do you think your location is equal to your nationality? It's like saying Nozawa Rena was Indonesian because her previous location was in Indonesia and now she is Japanese because her current location is in Japan.
    3. Why do you think that anyone would easily believe about one's location information in an internet forum where anonymity rules? Documents such as national ID or passport can be easily forged nowadays, let alone one's location information in an internet forum.

    I did read your 'practically' adverb in your previous post and it still doesn't justify your non-existence-of-Indonesian-grammar statement. Regarding Indonesian doesn't have complicated particles, well it's just you being subjective at it.
    Indonesian also has tenses but the good news is, unlike English, Indonesian verbs don't change depending on tense. Indicating the past or future tense only requires inserting words that indicate the time, in a very regular system. Just a lil' bit of example:

    Saya makan nasi = I eat rice
    Saya telah makan nasi = I ate or have eaten rice
    Saya sudah makan nasi = I ate or have eaten rice
    Saya akan makan nasi = I will eat rice
    Saya sedang makan nasi = I am eating rice
    Saya makan nasi kemarin = I ate rice yesterday
    Kemarin, saya makan nasi = Yesterday, I ate rice

    "Little things", eh. http://bahasaindonesiakusatu.blogspot.com/2013/02/tata-bahasa-baku-bahasa-indonesia.html
    "Little things", he/she said. :fp:

    Well, I concur with you. It looks bad, grammatically speaking. But not as bad as some of JKT48 translated theater songs.
     
  16. Galaxy Red

    Galaxy Red Kenkyuusei

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    wow wow wow, chill out dude :^^;:

    could you give some example? to be honest I never go to theater so I've never heard their theater songs
     
  17. NSANDERS

    NSANDERS Kenkyuusei

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    wow.. i think i'm gonna die if i dont use indonesian grammars correctly..
    :glare:
     
  18. PooPyon

    PooPyon Kenkyuusei

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    I think what @sakurazaki meant was, Indonesian has less rules about grammar than some other languages. You can easily say, "Maksud aku nggak gitu" and "Aku nggak maksud gitu" and "Nggak maksud gitu aku" and the average Indonesian would understand that they mean the same thing. Meanwhile, "I don't mean it like that" is the proper grammar for English, whereas it's wrong to say "Mean I not like that" and "Not mean it like that, I".

    I guess what s/he is trying to say is that Indonesian in general is not as complex as English or Japanese. Barry Farber, author of How to Learn Any Language Quickly, Easily, Inexpensively, Enjoyably and On Your Own, even says that:

    And

    Related to the translation of JKT48 lyrics, I personally think with such loose rules on grammar for our language, the translators could do a better job making the lyrics to be as sensible as possible-- that is, sounding less awkward to Indonesians.

    Whoa, there.

    1. It's safe to assume that most Indonesian knows Indonesian. @sakurazaki was just pointing this out; s/he is knowledgeable in Indonesian because s/he is Indonesian, and most people would assume that if you're born and raised in Indonesia, you would be fluent in the language.

    2. Again, common assumption. How many Indonesians reside in Indonesia, as opposed to Japanese or American?

    3. Um, because why would you lie in this context if you're not from where you say you are and because there's rarely non-Indonesian that discusses JKT48 in this forum?

    The sarcasm is unnecessary, I think. Too snarky for an otherwise peaceful thread like this :^^;:

    I'm sorry for butting in, but I felt like I have to clarify a few things, since I see things much in the same light as @sakurazaki. Cheers!
     
  19. Faint

    Faint Kenkyuusei

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    ↑ i don't think it's a matter of more-or-less rules in different languages, it's just that different languages compose sentences in different ways, and the rules are different.

    ANYWAY, the reason i'm here is to ask if JKT and SNH will ever release their own original music, or are they destined to cover AKB songs and nothing more?
     
  20. zakky26

    zakky26 Kenkyuusei

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    That is the same question all of us fans been wondering about..even non-fans have the same question..
    If only there's a way that we can ask or demand an original song directly to Aki-P... I'm gonna be very disappointed if the existence of these two kaigai Group were only to cover AKB and other JPN48 songs with their respective language to promote AKB outside japan..
     

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