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ZOMBIES: Troublemakers?

Discussion in 'General JKT48 Discussion' started by too much idea, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. A48

    A48 Kenkyuusei

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    everything went well
    just saw some fans and familiar faces watching from the outside of the futsal court, but I'm sure they are not zombies [notme]
     
  2. KageTora

    KageTora Kenkyuusei

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    Just let the discussion flows naturally; don't force it too much, either totally into it or totally deny it. I think its natural when some of us are 'totally into it' there are some other who react by 'totally deny it'. Both parts are necessary to keep balanced view and proper stance toward the phenomenon. Even if we stop now, someday sh*t happens and/or someone else will speak about it - though with different term - because like it or not, the phenomenon exists. I'd rather bring some light to the darkness than blame the darkness for our fears.
     
  3. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    yap. haters gonna hate, anyway
     
  4. PineappleCrunch

    PineappleCrunch Kenkyuusei

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    hmm.. do i make something wrong here? well then please accept my apologize. :)

    well then let me explain why do i have this kind of opinion:
    First, i have read lot of article, tweets, fb post which tell something about "rude-fans", or "the barbarian style fan"etc. Who is generally called, Zombie.
    If we compared with other fanbase like Indie or Rock or Pop band (not Idol Group or women group), this kind of habbits is usually found among them. But this kind of habbits is just unacceptable for an Idol Group (escpecially girls) fans rite? .. i mean, they are girls, need special attention comapared to native indonesian (boy/man) band.
    And this is get worsened by "gap" between Senior/More Experienced Fans (generally AKB fans before JKT formed) and The New Born fans (just like me, but really, i put my high respect for the senior fans, since i can learn much about AKB from them, knowledge is expensive ^_^).

    The problem is, the senior fans , the experienced one(s) (MAYBE) see that the most new born fans was not respect them and yes.. if you read the tweets, fb post, article etc, some of the new born is act disrespectful to them.. if i could say, senior. :(

    This is make the new born fans feels like the senior/senpai/the experience are arrogant, because they think they're not (doin such disrespectful thingy). quite sad. :(

    As long as i know, the gap between Indo AKB's Fans and JKT's Fans is quite wide. The old one make satir about the the born unacceptablle habbit, and the new born hates them coz of that. i know that the purpose is to make them "wake up" but... as you all see.. the "cold war" is far from over. but i optimistic, there is a day that AKB's and JKT's fans walk together as one. no satir, no disrespectful habbit, barbar etc.

    PS: once again its all just MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION. I mean no harm. so... ^D^V peace~
    ===========================================================================================
    about the newest issue of their barbarian attitude on latest event.. where the hell the Guard? i mean, the tent, no security or something? :(
    this ENDONESA attitude should be stop. I Started from my self, i will never doin such unacceptable thing, for my own sake. :)

    PS (again?? :fp: ): sorry if you couldnt understand for all of my writing.. need.learn.some.english.awh.yeah. :fp:
     
  5. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    anggiar, why so epic?

    that post is one of the best post about Zombies i ever seen so far!
     
  6. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    anggiar, why so epic?

    that post is one of the best post about Zombies i ever seen so far!
     
  7. abaone94

    abaone94 Kenkyuusei

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    Ah, well. Things are beginning to look up.

    Anyway, Anggiar's experience are the same ones happened to me in the past when I just knew about the entire 48 thingy :^^;: I think it is somehow a "common behavior" for the, say, "senior" fans towards the "junior" fans, thus creating a gap between each other. (Reminds me of high school seniority) This gap must be closed, either by fans' manipulation or natural occurrences.

    Sometimes, I might've unconsciously done that, so I guess "self-transforming" is better than trying to change other people. Then, when the mindset and the action of the whole changes, the rest may change.

    Games are really an educational source when it comes to things like this
     
  8. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    Anggiar
    did my sentence makes you like you're doing something wrong ?
    no. i was just commenting.

    well following your opinion back there -- it's actually happened to me before. i knew jkt before akb. so it's about 1 year ago. and i'm not a senior, though.
    that time i asked to do a gathering along with my area's fanbase and a senior fanbase (i don't want to mention it) and what happened ? i-hate-them-all.
    as you said, they are arrogant. they speak by themselves, not giving any attention when i -and another newlings- were talking. but what they said in the gath is important, they were warning my area's fanbase to not do some "zombie activities". they were talking about the incident in an event where some fans rushing from behind to the front of the stage when the girls was performing. which resulted a member's parent fell. we understood there. [notme]

    day by day, that senior fanbase keep making some specific event-which i never intended to attend. so i was just focusing at my area's fanbase. and after that i got selected as the admin of the fanbase.
    and when i say why, "you're the one who manages us all in all of our events you made". that time i was just helping the former of the fanbase which is my old friend i knew from an airsoft community -my previous community before jktfanbase-

    and since then, more people asked to join our fanbase. every gathering, new people came.
    i realized the habit of every person there. the good one-the bad one. after so many events, my area's fanbase got an appreciation from that senior fanbase, we keep attending specific events together. and since then, the seniors there are willing to serve us, to talk and to play along with us without showing any arrogance. some months later, i got busy with my study so i can't control my fanbase properly -until i asked some friends to replace me.

    and this was not going well. more people with bad habit joined the fanbase and caused problems. they got warned by some senior fans from my fanbase and that senior fanbase. but they won't listen. and i remembered that was the time i heard the word "zombie" came out from my friend's mouth when he was telling the story to me.

    so the conclusion in my opinion is :
    basically, there are two kind of seniors. 1, those who think they are the best. 2, those who think they won't stand without juniors. these arrogant kind of seniors is the number 1. to get their attention you should do some good activity-or even beat them in a debate of 48, they'll keep looking down to juniors if the junior themselves don't stand up and keep up with them-or don't listen to them and do something bad.
    this is the logic -> the seniors are arrogant, yes. but don't react to it with bad habit like not listening to them and do harmful things. so basically it goes to our heart itself. how we react to something's not right.

    but wait-not all seniors are like that. there are some bad seniors too which lead their juniors to a bad habit.
    and yet, i agree with your opinion about seniors babbling in a fanbase / twitter talking about juniors.
     
  9. KageTora

    KageTora Kenkyuusei

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    I think we are making progress in our understanding of the situation.
    - Previously we were concerned about the presence of some scourges that we labelled zombies among fellow fans.
    - We then decided to started this discussion so that we can discuss the phenomenon without disturbing and being disturbed by others that choose not to discuss it.
    - We shared our knowledges, collected all available informations, and found a jungle of sighting reports with so many variants in which those scourges take form. We construct our body of knowledges regarding this phenomenon - classifying and ascribing certain attributes to it - and deconstruct it once new data emerged with each step of constructing.
    - Then we found a clue from one of the strains that we observed : knowledge. This single clue suddenly give light to the whole picture.
    My reaction : viewtopic.php?f=46&t=5771&p=654812#p653035
    - from the first clue came the next clue : respect
    My reaction : Perhaps those new fans wanted some respect as fans of the same JKT48; they didn't get it from the older fans so they try to get it from their junior. They felt deprived of their dignity by their senior, so they try to regain it from their junior.
    I wrote this in respond to a PM that show disagreement toward my involvement in this zombie discussion.
    - I believe there are more things out there worth considering in the future, but I guess these two is a good (re)start for a better fandom.
    PS. My post started before krisnandikaji posted, and finished after it. I think he/she pointed out some valuable information and data that can render some part of my opinion expired. Btw for some reference, I recommend a reading for some insight to the situation: The Time Machine by H.G. Wells - or read its summary here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Machine#Plot
     
  10. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    well so after all of this discussion,
    i can say that :

    a) Seniority is not the main factor of the appearance of what we call all this time "zombies"
    b) Zombies are NOT juniors. Seniors also
    c) The main factor is those people who don't get respect from other fan (who have better knowledge) cannot keep up with them, so just like Kagetora's words:
    and do some harmful things-which is against the rules

    Except those guys are willing to gather information-just to keep up with these "older fans".
    ^from this kind of situation, some harmony will occurs. Older fans will realize the newer fans existence and finally, Respect Them



    ====edited====
    well i can't ensure this will happen, but most senior with good personality will soon
    respect new guys who can keep up with them
     
  11. KageTora

    KageTora Kenkyuusei

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    Totally agree. Brutal fans can exist in any fandom, not just JKT48's Zombies, Persebaya's Bonek, or other football Hooliganism. Most of the time, it lies on external factor before someone join a fandom. It ended up expressed to the external world because there are environment that allow it to flourish : the fandom.

    I want to specifically highlight this arrogance issue as one ( and not the only ) factor that make the whole problem difficult to solve. As a comparation, if we have a pneumonia we need to avoid spicy food. Spicy food is not the one that cause pneumonia, but it makes the healing process more difficult. The barriers created by arrogance from both side make this problem hard to be solved internally, and externally for newer fans to enter the fandom.

    Quoting my self from the general thread:
    The "zombies" now become arrogant because they hate arrogance as they have seen in their senior. Such hatred evokes their own dark side, and they eventually become arrogant themselves.

    We can become brutal ourselves, if we can't master ourselves dealing with their brutality. If you read carefully this thread from the very beginning you can find some thread that propose "fight Force with Force". Thankfully most of us still have clear mind and ability to control our self not to fall into the dark side (Why I have the feeling that we are in STAR WARS here?). If not, perhaps we'll find ourselves in a warfare between "Arrogant and Brutal Fans" against "Brutal and Arrogant Fans".

    I want to propose a solution to consider here. The keyword is "alternative route". Arrogance can be seen as a steep cliff that separates those who are on top of it from them are still on the way up. Why should they climb such steep cliff, paying respect to those arrogant people if there are easier and friendly path to be respected as JKT48 fans? Leave those arrogant people alone in their tower!

    We can do this : Greet anyone who are interested in JKT48, answer their question, but point them to the right direction to find out more (don't make them depend on you entirely for that). Ask them who are their Oshimen, praise them for their knowledge no matter how lack their knowledge is. See their bright side more than their dark side. They might have some dirty mind but told them something else to admire from their object of dirty mind ( Yeah, her b*** is Woah, but do you know that she is also ... )

    Dang it's late. There are many things I want to share but I should end it here. xP
     
  12. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    i've seen a zombie senior once
    he kept bullying the 'new fans zombies' abt 'what did you know about 48?!' and things
    and based on his statement, this guy only knows 48 around Aug 2011, few months before JKT debuted

    ps: lately there's a lot of ppl who still 'bullies' Miichan. i starting to hope SB to come here and stalked JKT instead…
     
  13. abaone94

    abaone94 Kenkyuusei

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    I want to add things up a little bit.

    As long as this two words: skymans and zombies exist in JKT48 fandom, every fans would never ever have peace among its peers. I'm not pointing out to who the subject is, but I'm pointing out to the usage of the word themselves.

    In my observation, this kind of... caste-ing is the one that created the gaps between new and older fans. I don't like the way somebody is called "Skyman Fans" or "Zombie Fans". I recognize both as an entire body of JKT48 fans, and I'm sure non-fans would be affected negatively if they knew such caste existed within this fandom (as it happens when one of my friend is debating with a non-fans), which then supported Kagetora's words
    Whatever the discussion turns out to be, I'm glad that everything went accordingly. In fact, all of the posts so far should be summed up, since it helped all of us to learn about the phenomenon. This will contribute to the transformation of JKT48 fans in general.
     
  14. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    right, the official viking fansclub also often has a problem with unorganized bobotoh who do anything brutally without thinking .

    lol this is what i was talking, a pure-bad personality inside a human being is causing an epic-bad action. just because a little bit of hatred.

    technically i draw their attention by saying, "Hey anyone has this [input your oshimen here] photopack?"
    aaaannddd they surrounded me.
     
  15. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    Even in gatherings, their will be FA's aka Forever Alone's. Most of the FA are new fans who came far away from their comfortable house just to come to gather with the other fans and, ironically, got ignored.

    My regional gathering was held weekly, every weekend. I only joins for one gathering at a culture festival at a University, and went to watch Wreck it Ralph together with few people and helped selling 2 OGB too. But that's enough to understand how the FA feels

    I was 96% ignored during the culture festival gathering. People, mostly males, only look at me, say something to his friend next to him and that's it. I left after a hour, only talked to 2 people and didn't even got to share my files (i brought my external HD)

    Maybe this is unrelated to this thread name, but if you came to a gathering and meet a FA (especially girls) pls greet and talked to them. If it a guy, it will be okay. But it ridiculously hard for a girl to come to a gathering, which will be dominated by males. Remember that even thought we are the same JKT fans, there is this unseen border between Males and Females (especially with this increase of criminality lately)
     
  16. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    really ? here in my area we treat girls as queen.

    girls member are few-but we know them all.
    for males its usual to be ignored. it's quite awkward though, that was a time a approached this kind of "FA" guy. sitting alone at the corner of the gathering's place. i spoke to him like friend. not acquaintance, the result is that "FA" guy is slowly become closer with the others. and my friends there called me-maho. for talking to a guy. just the two of us.

    but it's different for girls, i mean. girls. maybe the amount of male and female fans of 48 in indonesia is about 30:1 or more. so it's strange for me to know a fanbase could ignore a GIRL in a gathering
     
  17. too much idea

    too much idea Next Girls

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    that's what i heard

    Girls also tells that they having a hard time to go to the gath, even thought they want it, because of this "unseen" barrier

    But there's few girls at the gath, i know it from the gathering's photo's report
     
  18. Dharmawangsa

    Dharmawangsa Kenkyuusei

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    yes it's ironic ..
    girls usually need a friend to accompany her to do a specific activity, i can say that.
    and when she's alone, it's the boys who should be able to communicate or do something good to her. :hmm:

    but as long as the boys didn't do a complete ignorance, it's not a big problem, maybe they are shy or something. you know, the first feeling of a guy when he meet a new girl -- is something hard to describe [notme]
     
  19. Penguin4444

    Penguin4444 Kenkyuusei Stage48 Donor

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    hmm in my regional, the girls and boys is close
    some of them became couple :lol:
     
  20. abaone94

    abaone94 Kenkyuusei

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    Well you can say that this is an awkward truth, especially when the other boys go "cie, cie" to us when we're talking to a new girl fan :^^;: :fp:

    So it even comes to this after all :XD:

    But apart from all these internal problems about zombies and such, JKT48's fandom had certainly grew up into a sizable force. Moreover, we now have so many fans that come from different backgrounds, ages, and genders, so while this fandom seemed imperfect and premature, it still gain new people everyday. This, I think, is the "other side" of the phenomenon.
     

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